WE HAVE MOVED!!!

Visit our new, improved website at www.beyondorange.org

ARTICLE IN SLOVENIAN JANA MAGAZINE:

Original

ARTICLE IN SLOVENIAN PRIMORSKE NOVICE MAGAZINE:

English, Hungarian

ARTICLE IN AUSTRIAN PROFIL MAGAZINE:

German, English, Hungarian, Czech, Serbian, Slovenian

CALL TO ALL OFFICIALS OF THE ORGANIZATION

English, Croatian, Czech, Hungarian, Slovenian, German, Serbian

hi, I would like to say something to this
  • michalsladek April 2011
    Posts: 17
    Hi, I wanted to join the discussion. I have been with YIDL for a long time, about 20 years.
    I have witnessed a big change in YIDL over the years. It started so innocently, very grass roots, pure-hearted and spiritual, in countries where communist regimes controlled people and yoga seemed to be the pathway to freedom, at least on the inside. All the teachings were so fresh, new, giving us so much hope...

    Then, slowly, there came rules, personal clashes, elite groups... It still looked great to someone who did not get too much involved. But, alas, the focus changed from spiritual practice and living yogic way of life to gaining numbers and influence and accepting guru's word as a law that should not be questioned. Guru was God, but the divine presence got lost amongst the rules.

    This was the reason why I left- I needed to do what I find right, not what others tell me to do. It took me a few years to free myself internally. I had to look at myself very carefully, study my reactions, see where they come from. I had to nourish my inner spiritual connection too by studying and practicing with groups that emphasise direct spiritual experience(connection) and personal responsibility.

    I can see that what happened now must be a great shock for many people. Their whole world is collapsing. Because I went through similar process, I want to share some things.

    If you are a victim- don't close down, stay open. Open to people who love you and understand you and completely block off people who don't have pure intentions towards you. Ask for help, receive help, there is nothing wrong with that. Use your anger for action, to change your situation. We have been taught that negative emotions are BAD. This is very wrong. Negative emotions ARE. We can't get rid of them just by pushing them under the carpet and pretending that they disappeared. The only way to freedom is through direct (not intellectual) understanding. I have done some work in regression therapy (the ISIS method of Clairvision School in particular) and I can see more and more how we all are just slaves of our emotions, and mostly subconscious emotions. Your situation will not get better just by sitting in meditation and repeating mantra or by joining some church or group that offer many promises. It will also not get better just by turning your back on spirituality and hope that time will heal the wound. The only way how to get better is to do inner work, inner exploration, to face all these terrible memories from this life and from others, while being supported by the Light and by support of others who have been though it before. Only so you can regain your radiance. I personally am happy and grateful that I found such a group. One more thing- this all is part of the learning process of the soul. If you manage to get out of this, you will cover a lot of ground on your spiritual journey. It is not an easy ride but it is worth it. You reached (or will reach) a point when you KNOW that you had enough and you just can't go on like this, you just have to do something, anything. Then let your inner energy(=will) carry you through. You will get guidance. Ask and it shall be given, keep your hope, keep your eyes open.

    To the others- we know about karma. There is this saying about sankalpa- choose something you deeply wish, but it should be good for you AND for the others now AND in the future. We constantly create karma (=seeds of the future), in every second, whether we are aware of it or not, through our thinking, words (includes writing) and actions. This whole world and all our circumstances are result of our past actions that we are not aware of. Please be aware of this. You can choose various actions- make these things public and warn others, or staying with YIDL and still find it a source of spiritual inspiration. Just make sure that whatever you do, to look at where is this impulse to act come from. Is it from anger? Or feeling that you know better than your spiritual brothers and sisters (these are people who do spiritual work and follow the Light in whichever way, whether they are swAmi's disciples or not) and you are therefore better than them? Or is it from following your inner voice and pure desire to make this world a better place? Notice your reactions carefully in meditation, observe them from the space of stillness. Then your actions will be pure and will not attract negative karma. swAmi did what he did and he is subject to law of karma like anyone else. He will get the fruits of his actions sooner or later. And so will we. So, I just wanted to ask you to be careful what you wish for because you are a creative force. You co- create this Universe. By the way, that is why this world looks like it does. Because we all created this. It is sad on one hand and encouraging on the other hand (because we have power to fix it!).

    I wish everyone a revealing and rewarding journey through life. Expand... because to forgive and to understand means to become bigger than that what happened.

    Michal Sladek
  • Thanks Michal or using your real name. Better reading experience when one can associate the text with a person. My wife Brindavan tells me, may I reveal it? that Michal was known as Swami Shivanand. Agree with the intention of your text, which is, if I understood it correctly, everyone decide for himself and be happy with the decision.
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Michale, nice hearing from you and to know that you are well. I would not want Ushmeypuri to be my doctor or lawyer, he blew your cover :) Anyway, if you ever wanna talk let me know. If you don't, no problem either. Take good care of yourself. Ahoj,

    Roman
  • Chava April 2011
    Posts: 45
    Hi Michal, I am glad a have a chance to hear from you. Till now you were for me just man who is signed as Šivananda on tha cover of tapes with gurugita. And I remember swAmi telling about you that he didn´t want to give you sanjasdiksha but you ask him several time, so at the end he agreed. And that you have left because you are confused and you missed your life chance. It is great to see, that you didn´t miss the chance, you utilized it.
    Thanks for part about negative emotions. I had problems with supressing negative emotions/quallities in YIDL from the very beginning I came to yoga circus.
    As a so called "victim" I will think about your words. This is also the reason, I can´t use my true name.
    Take care. Ať se Ti daří.

    Chava
  • michalsladek April 2011
    Posts: 17
    Hello to everyone, thanks for comments. I don't care for covers, I don't need to. Whoever wants to write to me- msladek@optusnet.com.au. To answer- yes, I used to be known as Swami Shivanand.

    I have very fond memories of Roman, Tonda and Vrindavan from the old days. I think it is important to see people as people and not that I keep contact with them or not because they belong or not belong to some movement. It's funny, when I look back at my YIDL past, some people who were the closest to me or who I loved and respected deeply were many people who left the movement- both Romans, Tonda, his mum, Vedprakash, Yashoda, Yashoda and Mukti from Zagreb.

    Chava, thank you for comment. Take care of yourself. The word 'victim' is not a very fortunate word, it actually keeps you there in that state. We all have our own 'victim character' inside, that one who says 'why just me', 'that's not fair', 'I did not deserve it' and so on. You need to become aware of it, when it becomes active, how it drains your energy, how it confuses you. Only when you are able so observe it like this (facing it, not running away from it, not denying it {the familiar YIDL method}) you will stop feeding it and it will gradually become weaker and weaker. You can choose ti see it either as a dark part of your psyche or as a psychic parasite- that would be the yogic way- I am not this, I am the Observer, free from limitations. It is tricky, it requires vigilance- or great love ( you simply focus on the Light in you and/or in others and stay there). Do you see what I mean? Sorry, sometimes I use symbolic language, but these are subtle things. As I said, personally, I find ISIS a great help for this.
  • michalsladek April 2011
    Posts: 17
    Chava, regarding swAmi's comment about me as a swami: once he said in front of some people so that I could just half hear it that he thought that Shivpuri(me) would make a good swami but that he changed his mind. I heard it and felt flattered: wow, I did not imagine I could ever become a swami (in those days there were only 3 swamis I knew- Vedprakash, Hariharanand and Advaitanand)! My mother strongly said- go to swAmi and ask him, this is a lifetime opportunity! I did not do it but I started to consider it a possibility. A few weeks later swAmi asked me whether I want to become a swami and I said yes. Today I can see how clever he was!

    After the initiation I did not have any special mystical experience, I felt the same person as before. Actually, I developed pride. I started to think that I am better than others, that I know better. I also believed I can achieve something good, I had high ideals. (Ha, ha, I still have high ideals and pride, but at least I know about it now!) After one year of training under Hariharanand in Australia I felt like someone who is at work 24/7(=all the time) and it was just not me. I was not a swami. So I left. That's the story.
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Elisabeth, thank you for your website. I think any information which helps to promote discourse is a good thing. Does not matter if you believe in the abuse accusations or not. Reasonable and good people can (and sometimes even should) disagree. Then you know that it’s real. Regarding the abused women, I myself have a certain litmus test which those, whom I’ve talked to, passed. I will not reveal the trick question because (as you can understand) it would become obsolete. I think that the coming out was more catalyzed with Chidanand’s leaving than anything else. This does not mean that he had instigated it. Just the way things are and given geopolitical realities of YIDL structure. Once again, thank you for your part and for participating in this forum.
  • Chava April 2011
    Posts: 45
    Yes, very good point about victim. That is why I wrote so called and put it in the quatations mark. I am not victim any more. If I ever was a victim I finished to be it in that moment, when I said: That is enough, I finish, I quit swAmi. No more telling lies to myself.
    It doen´t mean I solved all my inner problems. I still have much work to do. Only in this I am sure... I´m more free then I was for last 20 years.
    And thank you for writing about becoming a swami. It is interesting to hear both sides.
  • Chava April 2011
    Posts: 45
    Elisabeth, I will give you unswer for some your questions. I am unswering only about myself.. Why I didn´t tell before about abuse? 1) I thought nobody would believe me. 2) I was confused- I tried to find spiritual reason, why he did it. 3) If I admit, he abused me I should also admit that all my believe in YIDL is fake.
    Why I tell it now? I tried to find some information about yoga subject and by an accident I found first your webside and then abuse web side. I have read some testimony and I have it so clear in my head. Finish. Not anymore. I will publish my story to.
    Why there are only 5 girls? First thing - I didn´t hear about 20 girls, so I can say nothing to this. But one reason can be for example this: One my close friend had to undergo much worst stuff then I had but she doesn´t want to make it public because her husband doesn´t know anything about this part of her previouse life. I can think about dozens of reasons but this is one real I know from life.
    Why I don´t want to public my name? 1) Organization which is "looking over" cults doesn´t advise me, to do it now. I am in direct contact with them, they know my whole life situation and they said, it is dangerous. 2) My friend - psychologist - who knows me as well as yoga society in place, where I live, is saying the same. 3) Honestly, I am afraid not to put under presure my family and I am not sure, how much press I can stay myself.
    But I am looking forward the time when there will be conditions when I can finish hidding.
    Last thing - I don´t what to press you to believe me/us. It is ok, you are not blindly accepting everything. If you have doubts, don´t believe us, it great to wait, search for more proofs. It is good to know it my take time. For me great is that you are asking.
    And I´m not suprised, that you can´t believe it. I can´t say nothing bad about you because I underwent it on my own body (not important if you blieve it or not) and even though I could´t admit it as abuse for 15 years.
    I wish you to find true you desire so much sooner. Take care. Chava
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Chava, thank you for joining this forum. There are many people out there who believe that you don't exist, you have evil intentions, you are crazy and lot of other things. I fully understand why those who had the bad experiences with swAmi don’t want to participate in forums and discussions. That’s why it is so important that you to some degree are willing to become their voice. That you and those other women are not just an imagination and illusion. Everything in the loyal disciples heads are just imaginations and illusions being put there by the mastermind under the pretense of a guru, teacher and guide. It makes me sad just listening to their statements. Lots of them I knew and I was hoping they were better, more free thinking and independent, able to decide for themselves and take responsibility for their lives. I guess I was wrong.

    Also, we need some women voices here. Otherwise it is just bunch of guys talking about ladies :-) And we all know how that usually ends up :-)
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    Romane,
    byl jsem s tebou kdysi v Indii, ale to s tebou byla ještě řeč.
    Sleduji tě v poslední době a tvé výlevy - jsi nechutný mystifikátor a hlavním důvodem toho je (i když si to nepřiznáš), že jsi zhrzený, zklamaný a neúspěšný exsvámí.
    Stydím se za to, že takový nevděčný ztroskotanec jako jsi ty, je také Čech. Nemáš vůbec ponětí, kvůli čemu doopravdy spustil Čitánand svoji očerňovací kampaň a ty ho teď v tom ještě hloupě a trapně podporuješ. Jednou se budeš kousat do jazyka až se dozvíš motivy a celé pozadí Čitánandovy kampaně.

    Petr
  • michalsladek May 2011
    Posts: 17
    this is a comment to the last message. It is from Peter and it is written in Czech language. Apart from other things it mentions that all this 'mystifying' and 'bad talk' was caused by Chidanand implying that there is no abuse happening and that all this is Chidanand's malicious campain against YIDL.

    I thought that it was a general knowledge to all people on this website that Chidanand's exit may have acted as a catalyst that people found courage to speak although his exit happened BEFORE any knowledge of the sexual abuse.

    Also, note that there are women coming forward from various countries like Australia, who don't know Chidanand at all!

    I am aware that Peter is a victim of a YIDL propaganda campain against Chidanand and that this campain is the official story in Czech Republic and elsewhere: the abuse never happened and it is all Chdanand's fault.

    Peter, if you really want to find a 'culprit', it is Uranus, the planet of sudden changes and revolutions. This planet was in such a position in relation to the other planets that its influence got magnified. It shook the whole Arab world (Egypt, Morocco, Lybia, Tunis, Syria, Bahrain, Jordan and others) and it shook the YIDL too! To this I can say: thank you, Uranus!
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    In Slovenia this CICI stuff is still the only explanation of what happened. Cici explanation came out in Maribor at national yoga meeting in the beginning of March, where the yoga leaders told the story and how everybody of YIDL Slovenia should act:

    - It is all Cici's smear campaign against swAmi becouse of some materialistic reasons

    - Narayani is ill (shyzo), she believes to herself and was used by CICI to spread this bad campaig, there are no other girls and women behind these 5 stories but all written by Narayani alone, with Cici as webmaster of swAmi abuse page, so-called Cici's page.

    - nobody should read the mails, forums or discuss this becouse it is all just spreading negative thinking

    - let's pray every day at 21.00 all together, wherever you are, and spread only positive and love waves for our dear guru and our missled brothers and sisters, stick together and spread love and only love, even to the poor ones (Cici, Narayani...)

    By emails came some proper wordings of badjans to sing at these everyday 21.00 satsangs.
  • I agree with the love and only love stuff. common ground. ah, just to be sure, love = agape.
  • Durchanand May 2011
    Posts: 74
    this is part of an email i got from a good friend in yidl on April 9th:

    "Regarding the “YIDL confusion propaganda”, H. was in Croatia and she was present when swAmi called (Swami) Vivekpuri and told him, that all what is happening now in YIDL are very heavy stones being cleared from our karmas and we are advised to meditate with mantra on Mahaprabhujis picture at least 2 hours a day to survive this all..."

    if you do that on top of all other things you have to do anyway then you surely have no time to read any forum...
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Mr. G (swAmi) pretends to have a hotline with Mahaprabhuji, but I don't think Mahaprabhuji will listen to him, no matter how many hours his followers pray for him.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    To Chava: I do not believe you or others that you were asked about sexual
    services. Those who believe something like that, I'm very sorry, because
    they missed opportunity to know who is swAmi (especially ex swamis).

    To Peterka: I am sure that your interest is not to help to alleged
    "victims", but to get finally realization in something.

    To Michael Chladek: I do not agree with your answer, but it's your opinion. I know you just a briefly from the Strilky, but I well know the circle of your very close people and they are like me.

    This whole discussion is not valuable and comes down by healing certain complexes and expressions of unbalanced personalities .

    Peter
  • admin May 2011
    Posts: 61
    Peter, here, we have freedom of speech and you can express your opinion and I support you in it with about $150 per year out of my pocket. No problem. The problem I have is that you used non existent email. Rules here have changed. And this is for everybody. You need to create an account with real email. If the mailer daemon brings our welcome to join email back as non existing, you are out. Therefore I will cancel you acount with that that you can create new one again with some real email. Not from this site. Just create email at hotmail, gmail, I don't care, don't use your name as part of the user name, because hackers are watching us from all sides and everything is fine.

    Roman
This discussion has been closed.
← All Discussions

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership

In this Discussion

Devotees' testimonies:

Devotee #1

---------------

Devotee #2

---------------

Devotee #3

---------------

Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz

---------------

Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de

---------------

Devotee #6

---------------

Devotee #7

SiteLock