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Follow the money.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    now I also understand why swAmi was always pushing people to buy buildings for ashrams asking directly his disciples to give their personal money. It was going on practically all the time and it's still going on. How many investments are going on right now? Can somone calculate the value of all these buildings that are owned by swAmi?
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    Reply to @speakup:
    aabout statut- you can change the statut of independent organisation any time
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @speakup:
    That is really good!
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @speakup:
    The other organizations should learn from you.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    The Hospital needs your help - in order to help others
    In order to continue providing vital free services to local people and also improve the range of equipment and services the Hospital can offer, it really needs your help. This Newsletter reaches more than 2000 people - if only 300 people donate 10 Euros monthly for 3 years (or 10 Pounds or 10 Dollars), the Hospital can become fully operational and self-sufficient in that time! But don't wait for someone else to do it first - it's up to you...
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    I found the text above in the YIDL monthly newsletter. No comment.
  • pavitra June 2011
    Posts: 270
    How to make money for charity from charity:
    (from yidl website):

    With the blessings of swAmi we have successfully introduced an Ayruveda Pancha karma program at the Austria Hospital here in Jadan ,India. Our Pancha karma treatment will be under the guidance of .... and his team of professionals.We offer eight different kinds of interesting Ayurveda treatment packages. The packages start a day before Gurupurnima on the 13th, second session on 28.of July 2011.
    AYURVEDA Program - PRICES:
    1 day package treatment
    incl. 3 treatments + doctor consultation EUR 60,-
    7 days package treatment EUR 385,-
    14 days package EUR 730,-

    Accommodation and food will be charged separately of the Ayurveda treatments (see below). Note: Single special treatments are possible after the advice of the Ayurvedic doctor.

    We provide double bed and single bed rooms with attached bathrooms and 2 large rooms for family or friends (4-6 persons)

    double bed room: 15.- EUR per night and person
    single bed room: 22.- EUR per night
    Family or friends room (4-6 beds): basis : 10.- EUR per night and person
    MEALS - Ayurvedic recommended vegetarian food: 10.- EUR per day
  • John_Sceptic June 2011
    Posts: 30
    Yes, the hospital situation is outrageous. It's not so much providing services for poor Indians who can't pay, it's more like another cash flow business.
    In relation to non profit organisations I just found (I'm ignoramus in relation to money, etc), that Australia can't just sell up and pay money to the people who worked for so hard and for so long. No, the profit would have to go to another non-profit business.
    But I've heard that one fellow (dedicated disciple), has already made himself a nest in the Sydney ashram, he kind of got in, and stays put, because he hasn't got a key to let himself back in again, in case he wants to leave the building. Wonder who does his shopping? Ha ha ha. Funny, if its wasn't so sad.
    So, if S's dedicated followers take over, apparently they can later change the status from non-profit to profit, and hence get money out of it? Any lawyers here? Feedback would be very welcome!
  • Australia_CallingAustralia_Calling June 2011
    Posts: 42
    Recently i had a discussion with a major donor to AAYIDL in Australia. He's given substantial donations that have helped set up the two main ashrams owned by the association. His take on it all is that a non-profit's funds must stay with non-profit organisations always and no more than 10% of income any year can go out of the country.

    If this is truly the law for non-profits in Australia and not just an assumption this should help to contain the integrity of the good will for use of that money.
    He said "I didn't give it to one man in India or Europe. I gave it to what seemed like an inspired and reputable non-profit association of Australian people. They had a vision to do good work with the money especially for the health of the community. My intention was very clear at that time."

    He said he's seriously considering legal action if the funds are being misused in some way and if it looks like the funds are in the the control of some "Fellowship" in Europe. I don't think he has even considered the possibility that a new board would turn the organisation into a profit group.

    If some members of a new board do try to turn AAYIDL into a profit company so all the funds can go across to Europe i reckon that's a bit like spitting in the faces of all the people who have offered so much time and energy to the association for so many years (not to mention the yoga students). Remember the yoga students - they almost never rate a mention on this forum - the teachers here used to think they were teaching for the benefit of the students - imagine that.

    With all this evolving people who have been reasonably quiet and respectful up to this point are likely to start getting a bit vocal now and this may be extremely damaging to the credibility of AAYIDL in the Australian yoga community and with all the current yoga students.

    Disgust - this is a deeply meaningful word at the moment isn't it - disgust.

    Maybe Batawe will now give you all the benefit of his "philosophy of disgust". This is a challenge for you mate - offer us your "philosophy of disgust" in relation to this 'path' in the form of 5 aphorisms please - no more than 20 lines in total! :)
  • John_Sceptic June 2011
    Posts: 30
    To Australia Callling: Don't know how many contacts you have in Australia, but please send out a warning to the members who are leaving: I think there is a possibility of that happening (non-profit/change to profit). I'm no lawyer, nor a business person, but please tell them to make sure that the "unthinkable" will not happen. I have one particular person in mind who is extremely self-serving and opportunistic and totally dedicated to S. Maybe my intuition and gut-feeling is wrong, and it's none of my business really, but I don't want the disciples who are leaving now, having to face extra heart-break. I feel so sorry for them, I really think they should all get something out of it. I wish them all the best.
  • pavitra June 2011
    Posts: 270
    I was for some years part of one yidl association and I can confirm you that the agreement is that you must pay 12% of all incomes to the fellowship as swAmi's royalties fee (author's copyrights). For every single charity project (hospital, school, rainwater harvesting, ashram or any specific charity project) the money is collected separately and in addition to the 12%. A part from this for seminars and conferences swAmi get a dakshina (an envelope full of money). The amount is not agreed in advance but generously given by the organizers. I don't know if AAYIDL has some special agreement but in Europe I can assure the income percentage that is going out of every country is far more than the 10% Australia Calling mentioned in his letter.
  • John_Sceptic June 2011
    Posts: 30

    Australia beware: What if the new board members decide to change status from "nonprofit" to "for profit" organisation? Is that possible in Australia? Could they do that, sell up and give it all to S? How could one prevent that from happening?
  • Australia_CallingAustralia_Calling June 2011
    Posts: 42
    Reply to @John_Sceptic:

    thanks for your advice John

    To all the members of the Australian Association

    Maybe you could prevent that by asking yourself if the people who Gurudev wishes to be on the 'new board' have the appropriate skills and leadership qualities to guide the association safely out of the significant trouble it is currently in.

    Maybe you could prevent that from happening by choosing not to hand the power of the organisation over to a group of well intentioned people who will be opening themselves up to becoming puppets of the "fellowship".

    Maybe you could prevent that by asking some government body to hold the assets of the organisation before they are stolen by an international cult.

    If the associations assets won't be used for the good of the Australia community anymore maybe they need to go somewhere else completely - to some other organisation that you have some confidence in that will use them for the benefit of the broader community. Start thinking now of some organisations that might just do something good with the 5 million dollars or so that the association must be worth.

    And someone i know reckons you should all take a real close look at that SriRa bloke who offered all the insults on the forum a while back and who Gurudev wants on the new board - he is in the business of moving money - there was a link to his website (swamy something). Why is he so suddenly involved in the associaton's business - he's never been interested before? Wonder what his business clients will make of his being on the board of a cult anyway? What do you know about him?

    Please Australians add your ideas here - lets keep thinking of options to protect it all.
    Does anyone know something about the legal stuff?

    Dear Lord i know i am in the wrong section of this forum for discussing such matters, but even still i beg you - please protect all Australians from the vampires, robots, thieves and muppets.

    Lets hope something positive will come.
  • Roman June 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @Australia_Calling:
    Thank you for sharing this information on this new YIDL News website. Lets hope something positive will come.
  • John_Sceptic June 2011
    Posts: 30
    Thanks, Australia calling. The reason I am extremely concerned is this: The fellow who is living in the Annandale Ashram all of a sudden, (the moment he found out 18 people resigned he packed his bag and set up camp in the ashram), is associated with an extremely intelligent, but very deceitful property dealer, who is also a dedicated follower of S. Both of them are opportunists to the extreme. Both of them are skilled "money movers" and at least one of them is extremely skilled at doing crook property deals. So Australia, please beware! I'm not saying they would be capable of doing it straight away, but once they find it is too hard to run the organisation, they might just take the opportunity to do a shifty deal and that'll be that. I'm kind of still involved enough to actually care. Maybe I shouldn't, none of my business, but, what the heck. Australia beware.
  • Connex June 2011
    Posts: 49
    @ < Both of them are skilled "money movers" >

    He doesn’t need your money, nor does he need your body or mind. He just takes away bad karmas and liberates your soul.

    You may rest assured that some of his dedicated followers are _exceedingly_ rich and famous people. Instead of accepting XXL-amounts of money he encourage them to run own charitable projects.

    The deeper sense in it is to bless as many “ordinary people” as possible with karma yoga and bring them up. Therefore he likes dribbing and drabbing in small money and a great long-term construction site in India. It's mainly about the process, not the result.

    Those who compare karma yoga to slavery work have never realized its true meaning and illuminating power. True karma yoga is carried out with pure heart, renouncing profits and return. Thereby the chakras rotate clockwise and stop sucking energy. That prepares the inner field to get divine experience. It pushes the development of Sadhakas. Seva is a blessing.

    “Power” means responsibility & duty to Sw., and good bye to privacy.

    If he would be interested in sex, he would never have been in need to abuse someone, to seduce or rape. This is just a perverted fantasy far beyond reality.

    You are totally on the wrong track.
  • Tony June 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @Connex: Slowly, with a feeling:

    "Those who compare karma yoga to slavery work have never realized its true meaning and illuminating power. True karma yoga is carried out with pure heart, renouncing profits and return. Thereby the chakras rotate clockwise and stop sucking energy. That prepares the inner field to get divine experience. It pushes the development of Sadhakas. Seva is a blessing. "

    Here's my rebuttal.

    It is only those who still dwell in the sixth triangle who benefit from vikshayic activities such as karma yoga. Those who have already overcome the aswanga meha and moved beyond to the seventh triangle can actually be poisoned by khapala and blow all their energy back (especially the refined, ultraviolet, energy!). The Seventh triangle Saddhaka needs khaputya, Khaputya is beyond blessing.
  • Australia_CallingAustralia_Calling June 2011
    Posts: 42
    Reply to @Connex:
    What somebody needs and what they desire are often two very different things.
  • someonefromhungary June 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @Connex:
    "Therefore he likes dribbing and drabbing in small money and a great long-term construction site in India."

    I'm trying to understand this sentence and I'm having a number of difficulties.

    are you saying that:
    1. certain amounts of money are just spent quasi in vain to provide opportunity for karma yoga? or what's the function of the "therefore" (causal relationship with the previous senctence)?
    2. he likes a great long-term construction site? or what is the verb in the second part of the sentence?
    3. the great long-term construction site is small money? or what is the relationship between the two parts of the sentence?

    so can you explain what you wanted to say?
  • John_Sceptic June 2011
    Posts: 30
    Dear Connex, my concern is not so much SM in this case, it is two men that I personally know. I know what they are capable of in relation to money. That's what really concerns me at the moment. As I've said many times before, I still have real trouble believing the Sex allegations. However, I've heard the reasons you listed above many times, in relation to money and karma yoga, it looks good on paper and sounds reasonable enough, but I don't buy it!
  • batawebatawe June 2011
    Posts: 409

    don't have much to say about philosophy of disgust;), it damages the word philosophy;)
  • Australia_CallingAustralia_Calling June 2011
    Posts: 42
    Reply to @batawe:
    I knew you had at least one aphorism in you - thanks mate - a one-liner!
  • batawebatawe June 2011
    Posts: 409
    Reply to @Australia_Calling: ;))
  • pavitra June 2011
    Posts: 270
    Reply to @Comex: "If he would be interested in sex, he would never have been in need to abuse someone, to seduce or rape. This is just a perverted fantasy far beyond reality."
    I completely understand your point. The problem is that the world is not ready to understand the guru tatva and lila. The best prove are the incredibly limited laws about sexual abuses connected with the abuse of power. The foundation of these very human and limited laws is based on the fact that they are considering the relationships like parents - child, teacher - pupil or spiritual preacher - follower as a situation where the child, the pupil, the follower are automatically in the position of victims in all cases of reported abuses as well as in the cases of induced slavery (someone who reports that has worked for free at some process resulting in some material benefits). According to these laws, people would judge someone looking at the resulting benefits only (like personal belongings, luxury lifestyle or benefits resulting from the selling of the capacities created with the free workforce or other types of charitable donations).
    But who will defend the rights of the parents, teachers and gurus that are just providing the needed material resources that will permit them to execute their difficult and underestimated job of imparting wisdom and knowledge?
    How can it be that these stupid, blind, judging humans are unable to see the incredibly process of turning inside out of the chakras? Do they really need another deluge to see it?
    And who will defend these poor gurus on duty constantly attacked by the sexual appetites and fantasies of their young followers approaching them from their early young age with their eyes shining with tears of lust and their innocent flesh impregnated with the perverse smell of their unfulfilled desires?
    And now just project the same questions in the concrete case of a guru that with his charming smile and humble orange robe can get the hearts, the bodies and the belongings of every single woman he would like ... including exceedingly rich and famous people.
    How for a hell can someone even think that he would do it?
  • Roman June 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @Connex:

    “Power” means responsibility & duty to Sw., and good bye to privacy.

    That’s exactly the same what my teachers used to tell me when I was in the elementary school:

    “Our power, little Roman, lies in responsibility and duty to the Communist Party and good bye to selfish individualistic privacy.”

    Thank you for enabling me this elevated state of “déjà vu all over again”. My chakras have stoped to the still point and I became a woman.
  • batawebatawe June 2011
    Posts: 409
    welcome to the reign of 'totalitarianism' where personal is abolished and the Revolutionary Figure/Idea is affirmed:::this unification under One Man has structurally faschistic implications, that's why it doesn't work (on the long run)...

    and strangely, all this Master and disciples relationship resembles the structure, same as historical figures and Communist Party with Leader on the top, the only difference is that we talk here about spiritual topics and the beautiful world that lies "beyond" or in some historical future of the New Man - historical 'evolutionary' agenda, which we all work for, and our community or party is essential in fulfilling the sacred destiny=IDEOLOGY - which is promised to us, and that keeps us going...

    isn't there something utopian in all this 'leadership' and fantasmatic belief?,

    but hordes of people are needed to fulfill the Historical Necessity of the 'New coming age'...and there are many spiritual 'Stalin's', who act as if chosen by Destiny, propagating the saviour-agenda...just scroll you tube and there are crores;) of them....

    also in the west not only in the east, so called neo-adwaitins of the new age enlightenment era and profound realizations of Self and God and the World substratum and whatever else there might be to realize...
  • Australia_CallingAustralia_Calling June 2011
    Posts: 42
    Update from Australia

    Today we have a confirmed date for a meeting to go ahead about the future of AAYIDL.

    A series of four documents were sent to AAYIDL members this morning – these documents were prepared for members to determine the future of the Association.
    The documents were in "bureauspeak" so here is a simplifed summary in regular Aussie English.

    There was a Special General Meeting proposed for the following date:
    Sunday 26th June 2011

    The members were asked did they want to hold a Special General Meeting on the date above. Enough members have replied today to confirm this meeting will go ahead.

    The meeting is open to members only and people can vote by proxy if they can't attend.
    Two things need to happen at the Special Meeting:

    1. We need to elect a new board as the current one “was not elected in accordance with the Constitution” (Guruvakya election?).
    Voting process:
    Form to be developed for nominations for new office bearers eg
    President, Vice President, Treasurer, Secretary, Public Officer
    New office bearers to be elected by majority vote of members.

    2. Secondly we all need to determine which of the following three options to take in relation to the future of the organisation:

    A. Continue as always – including connection with Gurudev and “Fellowship” and no changes.

    B. Continue association’s activities in a more inclusive way – change the name and constitution so it doesn’t require the connection with yidl, Gurudev and “Fellowship” but rather indicates openness to a range of yoga teachings and teachers.

    C. Wind up the association altogether

    Voting process:
    First vote on proposal for change as outlined in B.
    75% of members need to vote in favour of a change to B for this to occur.
    If this change does not go ahead proposal C to be put forward and voted on.
    Again 75% of members need to vote in favour of "winding up" for this to occur.
    Otherwise the association must default to option A ie no change.

    There was a document about the proposal B changes and what they could be.
    Proposal B includes two key constitutional changes:

    >rename AAYIDL to be “The Australian Yoga Association Incorporated”.

    >update to objectives so they are inclusive rather than exclusive – eg indicating ability to draw from various yoga lineages/teachings rather than all focused around Gurudev and yi..

    Some examples from the updated list of association aims:
    (ii) The education of the community utilising the principles as expounded by Saints and Sages from various Yoga lineages and teachings;

    (iii) The cultivation of physical, mental, social and spiritual health through the teachings of yoga and meditation;

    (iv) The fostering of the principles contained in the Universal Declaration of Peace;

    (v) The qualification, education and training of teachers in Yoga techniques, Yoga Vedanta philosophy and Vedic culture;

    (vi) The preservation and dissemination of the techniques of all authentic Yoga practices for the betterment of humanity and the planet’s natural environment;

    (xiii) To educate, promote and campaign for world peace and sustainable development to the individual, community groups and organisations, as well as national, international and governing institutions.”

    Proposal C - if this goes ahead there would also be a further meeting to determine which non-profit tax exempt organisation to distribute funds to.

    More details of meeting agenda etc will come. Also some things were in draft format so could change.

    Forgive me if i've misinterpreted anything or not represented properly - this is what i could make out from reading the "bureauspeak" and i think i managed to sort the basics.

    Dear Lord and others, we are grateful for your ongoing protection from vampires, robots, thieves, muppets and the like.

    Lets hope something positive will come from this.
  • PallasAthene June 2011
    Posts: 246
    The voting process is a farce. 26 % decide which way the organization will take.

    You should drop this process. All three posibilities must have at the first election 75 %. If none of them reach this mark, the next ballot must decide by simple majority how to go on.
  • someonefromhungary June 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @PallasAthene: yes, very good point :) :) :)
  • John_Sceptic June 2011
    Posts: 30
    PallasAthene, I agree, what a joke! And what if the "sneaky" one I'm thinking of, the one who would be quite happy for Option A, (everything being the same, with link to SM), what if he tries to get new members signed up quickly? Is that still possible? I hope they don't accept new members before they get to vote.
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