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Lineage of spiritual masters.
  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    *not sunglasses of course, the regular glasses... Lapsus calami
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Here's short video regarding Satya Sai Baba. He was simply cheap cheater who was somehow or other able to delude crowds of trustful innocent people by his personal charm and effulgence. And by simple tricks and skilful tongue.

    What swAmi swAmi now writes about Sai Baba speaks for itself. As it is said: "Birds of a feather flock together".


  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
  • satfinder May 2011
    Posts: 24
    Dharma Discussions [Mela 2003] [March 2004] [hinduismtoday.com]

    swAmi:
    "In India today, the biggest problem is the problem of secularism.

    Sadhus are ignored by sections of society and by the government.

    Sooner or later the government has to think about the welfare of the sadhus
    if they want India to remain as one India.

    Sadhus are the propagators of Sanatana Dharma
    [zdajšnji Hinduism, po swAmiwaranandi tudi
    "the eternal religion"*], and have a very big role
    in keeping India united.

    *http://tinyurl.com/6cv288n

    Hinduism gets no support whatsoever from the Indian government.

    Special rights are given to minority religions which are denied
    to Hinduism.

    My biggest problem, after having lived 35 years outside of India,
    is that nowhere in the world is there a center to protect the
    interests of Hindus.


    Anybody can attack you.
    If some sadhu is in trouble or leaves the world,
    no one is bothered about what could be done to support him.

    So today we have no home.
    We are homeless even in our own home."


    How should Hinduism view scientific advancements?

    "Lord Krishna clearly said that when mixed breeds come,
    purity is lost and destruction is the result.

    Things will be polluted and manipulated.
    Even your consciousness will be polluted."


    Are swami's allowed to be married?
    "In our Dasanami tradition of Adi Shankaracharya,
    it is totally prohibited.

    However, among traditions such as Jain, Sikh, Buddhist
    and Kabir Panth, wearing the orange robes and marrying
    is permitted."


    Hinduism Today
    http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/print.php?itemid=1636
    http://www.hinduismtoday.com/
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    A follower of swAmi last year showed her support to Nithyananda, another 'guru' who was actually caught in the act, people had secretly made a video of Nithya doing his 'lila'.

    http://standup-for-nithyananda.blogspot.com/2010/04/support-from-disciples-of-swami.html

    There's nothing wrong with sex, but please be honest about it and don't pretend that you are above it when you are actually having it with many followers. If you want it, give up your orange robe and marry a woman (or man). One difference between Nityha and swAmi: the sex Nityha had was at least consensual, something you can't say of swAmi.
  • satfinder May 2011
    Posts: 24
    +1 [I think the same. -)]
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    Hinduism is split in itself, and as any other culture has its own problems; what are the today's results of sanathana dharma in India?, True yogis are rare; there are many sadhus and renunciates and what is the final effect? Lots of poverty. Traditions and cultural views and rules that can function in India can not function here; they have their own problems and their own idiosynchrasies; and this division between West and East (which hindus themselves attest), well, let's take it than seriously, let's see what is common ground of all humanity's pursuits (establishing the infrastructure, education, possibilities of employment etc...), to make life more easier and more humanly dignified, but leave the belief systems and cultural elements where they belong; we don't need to wear clothes like indians and wear tilak's, it's totally unimportant and culturally inadequate to the western way of life; if you see harekrishna's on the street (which I am not against, I was many times eating at their place and have some acquaintances there and I see them as ordinary people) but nevertheless their indian imagery sticks out, and you see it's imported from some exotic country...it's nice to have various cultures and today's multiculturalism and speeches about tolerance etc., are nothing new, but it still looks funny all the same; they all get from various traditions together, they exchange some views and smile to each other and they somehow "get to know each other better", and than they go home and what is radically changed? Not much. It just looks good, it's good PR-strategy, apparent oneness of all religions etc...and it's funny, do the religions need to unite themselves in a sense of "finding common language", as if the religions are not aware of their own fundamental principles of love and tolerance, which they preach about; behind all this religious circuses, lies the different cultural onsets, views and idiosynchrasies and in fact it's a political and social thing/reality and has nothing to do with no absolute truth whatsoever, but with maintaining the structural/symbolic positions within society.

    comment on the articles "Hinduism Today":
    you can get really impressed when you read these names of Mahant's and Puri Ji's, Jagadguru's and Mahamandaleshwar's...they may probably realized the highest truth;), they may probably be the highest knowers of the eternal wisdom, but they have large symbolic names attached to them - as if the Nirvanic Reality or whatever differentiates between Mahants and Jagadgurus;))), which means, Mahants and Jagadgurus are a part of socio-symbolical reality and they speak through that social position/Name/Authority/Paternal instance and they are becoming much concerned where the world is headed; how come that jadaggurus and Mahants of the past to this day didn't change much about their own country and now the West endangers the traditional values of indian mind with TV and internet etc...

    Mahant:
    "Our women used to dress in a sober manner, but today they have started exposing their bodies. Whosoever in our culture insulted our womanhood, his whole clan was removed from this Earth. You can see, for example, what happened to Duryodhan and Ravana. Their whole clans were wiped off this Earth. But today television is showing such obscene scenes and there is no one to stop them. It is unfortunate that this is happening in a country where we say 'Matra devo bhav'...."

    Vedanti:
    Today's youth are obsessed with the culture of television. In our preaching to them, we try to awaken their consciousness, but after they leave, the culture of television overpowers their minds. Wrong television programs are a big pollution which has engulfed our society. Today young sons, daughters and daughters-in-law watch obscene programs together. The decorum and decency that was traditionally maintained in our families is disappearing. They all laugh together at the wrong type of scenes. TV should broadcast programs which uplift the human mind. From time immemorial, the mind is attracted towards desires, just as water poured on a slope flows downwards. To bring the mind up requires sadhana, spiritual disciplines and practices. But if we uplift the mind for one hour and then let it float downwards for ten, what will be the result? Today the people of affluent countries are fed up with material things. They are upset and do not understand why peace eludes them. They came here to India in search of peace. Just see our state of confusion! People from the West come to us looking for peace, while we are going toward the West and adopting a materialistic lifestyle."


    Nicely said, Vedanti;), why do we search peace in East...as if 'West' was spiritually so poor it needs to borrow from 'East', it's nonsense...just chekc the gnostic/hermetic traditions of West etc, the whole philosophical tradition from greece to nowdays and contemporary people that today live and breath and work, no, we need to go to swami hamakamahalaji and he will tell us what is the truth,,,we are fu...kin lazy people!!!

  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    "Lord Krishna clearly said that when mixed breeds come,
    purity is lost and destruction is the result.

    Things will be polluted and manipulated.
    Even your consciousness will be polluted."

    ----now, what does that mean? mixed breeds as of race?
    survival mechanisms rules "über alles"...individuals, societies, nations...is mixed breed evil? aren't we one?;), yes, but not socially and politically and economically mr. batawe...oh yes...thx man;)))
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    regarding Nithyananda, watched several videos of him and amyn many many others, form hindu culture to nowdays modern european or american neo-adwaitins,,,I would need at least 30 pages to write but maybe some other day, don't worry Roman;)

    allegations yes or no, doesn't matter, but mr. nithyananda had so many overblown statements , you can find in his videos about himself that every sane person can come to the conclusion that either is he completely enlightened;))) or completely over-inflated;)

    but here are the 'embrionic' ideology programmed already into the small minds , directly or indirectly, the new breed of the future; you'll have place to stay, and food to eat, but you'll promote our ideology also:

  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    anyway, this was just small example, otherwise I refrain from now on, to speak about concrete individuals or other masters or mahants, indirectly yes, like articles or links to some sites...otherwise this will become a new 'you tube'...
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    we expect from you:
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    well, 'our' akhara, is allowed to be posted;)
  • Speaking of swAmi's politics, I have always and passionately hated them. Once he suggested that it would be best if the Sadhus themselves took power. I should have stood up and quit that day. But alas, the warm fuzzy feeling Batawe mentioned proved a stronger motivator. Feelings follow imagination, and as long as I could imagine that he is basically harmless and well intentioned, albeit sometimes stupid, I enjoyed the little attentions that were bestowed on me and the sense of belonging and all. Also for all the times he was stupid there were times when he was brilliant. I think nobody can deny that he has developed kitchen sink psychology into a fine art. But perhaps it is also a case of someone speaking as much as swAmi uttering occasional gems inadvertently.

    Speaking of things hateful about swAmi, his declaring ex cathedra incredible nonsense in front of grown up people, thereby insulting them and their intelligence, elicits red hot anger in me when I think back on it. Alas, when I sat there cringing from the absurdities pronounced I consoled myself that these were just unimportant differences of education and outlook. Giving an example, once in Strilky, he told the story of this Indian desert wasp, laying its eggs in caterpillars, which is an allegory for guru and disciple. He declared that the wasp transforming the caterpillar into a wasp does so by genetically modifying the caterpillar. In front of a crowd of grown-ups. No, a wasp has no way of genetic engineering. The wasp lays its eggs into the caterpillar which gets eaten from inside and killed, before a wasp hatches from the dead carcass of the caterpillar. Perhaps I should have listened more closely. His avoiding the symbolism of the guru(=wasp) killing and eating the disciple (=caterpillar) should have told me something.

    Returning to his rotten politics, in Jadan in 1996 I saw how he discriminates against village people of the former untouchable castes, despite all talk of unity and humanism and all. There was a fat lady from (formerly) untouchable background. Everybody was allowed to enter the courtyard in front of the kitchen - exept her. I asked people why and they just shrugged shoulders.

    The yoga was good, though. When I started out I was in such a life situation, having had an earlier spontaneous spiritual experience which was unintegrated and has created a mass of thought forms I basically couldn't handle, as to be in dire need of yoga and real people providing a living example of people who really practice. There it is, the element of early gratitude which binds the cult follower. I am still grateful to swAmi, and my service to this debt is not letting him continue with the lies, as far as it is possible to me, because of course the lies in the end damage him more than anybody else.

    There, I have poured out my heart, in the spirit of sharing.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    a few years ago at a satsang, Chidanand told a story. swAmi was coming surrounded by small children. disciples including Chidanand took their cameras to take pictures of the nice scene but swAmi stopped them saying something like chocolate bhaktas... for years, I kept asking myself (and others) why swAmi keeps up this practice of distributing chocolates to children at almost every satsangs if he himself is well aware of this practice producing chocolate bhaktas? I myself never liked this thing. he should distribute at least nuts or something more healthy instead... or much rather take that time to spend with them, give them attention, speak to them, teach them something, whatever... chocolates or for that matter even nuts, anyone can give (especially when it costs nothing to the giver and especially when it is producing bhaktas for him/her)
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    Thanks for sharing Ushmeypuri! I don't have no 'juicy' stories or anecdotes; I fervently searched for something and was "open" to the possibilities, and the possibility to meet physically a yogi, was something which could make things more real...we all have our backgrounds or un/conscious reasons, self-imaginations of "what did we want to achieve" by entering the spiritual path...As to the circumstances at that time when I was searching for something, it happened that some of my friends were already in some sort of spiritual process and have friends that went to Harekrishna's, Sri Chinmoy, swAmi Yogi etc...there were already some possibilities;), but I was more or less interested in indian philosophy, but was also much impatient to find some concrete spiritual path and I went to various seminars and finally came to Yidl. At that time, I guess I needed something new, something that coincided with my inclinations towards yogic practice, towards the "new beginning", 'cutting' the ties with certain past, threading the new path of Light and Wisdom, the process of becoming a 'saint' was being initiated.;) It's all well, we need to learn, through whatever we meet on our way, if it comes unwillingly or if we go towards it willingly...the main problem that I see now, is not connected with pursuits of seeking, seeking the knowledge, acquiring more awareness etc., applying certain things in life which might help you, but more with the fetishistic element and imagination-structure that surrounds this sacred quest (fetishism of the spiritual group you are part of, paraphernalia and rituals that structures your new life...): the psychological ideas of yourself as a special persona that is specially blessed, that is privileged to be on such and such a path, the proudness and ego which you develop as the mini-copy-paste of "someone who knows", imitation, feeling that you somehow solved all the problems, neglecting practical things etc...it's a very thin line, between responsibility and freedom, freedom actually means (greater) responsibility and spirituality sometimes can take the form as if by becoming spiritual, everything will be solved and self-imposed ideas of non/doing, of being "above" things and situations, people etc., can become dangerous; you can create this split between "us" and "them", us who know and them who are still in illusion...many traps are there, not just in so called real life, but in the spiritual life also, the possibility to twist the ideas to that extent that it thwarts your normal everyday life, not noticing you are becoming zombie-like...
    anyway, everybody has probably different experience but main thing is, that things must become natural as they were already and the only thing that we can do is to bring some more awareness to what we do and that we are sincere with ourselves and consequently we will be to others,,,when we are in deep sh--t, that we acknowledge that we are in deep sh--t, and when we see that we are lying to ourselves that we can be honest to see it...spirituality is all around us already, from minutest details to large things we take upon ourselves, to become sincere and open people that can be relied upon and not become crazy sadistic maniacs, well that's already much, if it can be done.

    waiting and hoping and projecting on someone else - your desires, might help us only as we need that initial input, later it becomes an obstacle, not that we become disrespectful, but what is important is not what the Other does and how will I structure my life according to that Other and his Desires - taken as my own, but how will I structure life according to personal possibilites of self-realization (meaning not necessarily spiritual realizations, but evertyhing that you need to expresses your own possibilities of your specific being and creativity)---all else can not be finally fulfilling and the greatest flaw of everyone is when s/he doesn't "Do" her own "Work"...all else is a waste of time...why do certain people on various fields of human creativity or different pursuits of human expression , as art, poetry, philosophy, architecture, etc...all the cultural pursuits of human beings, why do these great persons look enigmatic, magical, determined etc...fulfilling their visions? The only answer is, they sticked to their Work and nothing else mattered and did they asked somebody, hey what should I do?, no, so, everybody must find her/himself in things that re-present her/his own being and you need not ask anybody "what that is"...live and do the things and than you can die with feeling, that you have done what you could, to the extent of your own power and comprehension, to express what was your own "particular self-expression"...that's all---
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    this "particular affirmation of individuality and specific work" must be affirmed, not just some "empty universality of being", sunken into the undifferentiated spiritual plasma of attributeless "I"...
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    ...i wish there was a "like" button below the posts... a lot of what you all write here would have my "likes" :)
    let us have (a) satsang (topic) for positive, constructive thoughts only... thoughts on what to do to become strong and free, and consequently as sincere and good with others (and with ourselves) as we can... and to achieve a no-matter-what type of ultimate balance and happiness... etc.
    would you join?
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    just create the topic;) Roman is benevolent and will not be mad on us;)))
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Even born-again rationalist Roman won't mind :)
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Read my response to that thread. You can have it but as a real satsang, no BS :-)
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    Romane,
    byl jsem s tebou kdysi v Indii, ale to s tebou byla ještě řeč.
    Sleduji tě v poslední době a tvé výlevy - jsi nechutný mystifikátor a hlavním důvodem toho je (i když si to nepřiznáš), že jsi zhrzený, zklamaný a neúspěšný exsvámí.
    Stydím se za to, že takový nevděčný ztroskotanec jako jsi ty, je také Čech. Nemáš vůbec ponětí, kvůli čemu doopravdy spustil Čitánand svoji očerňovací kampaň a ty ho teď v tom ještě hloupě a trapně podporuješ. Jednou se budeš kousat do jazyka až se dozvíš motivy a celé pozadí Čitánandovy kampaně.

    Petr
  • Durchanand May 2011
    Posts: 74
    Roman or anybody else who can, could you do us a favour please and translate what PETR has written and posted under all discussions. I only understand Citanandovy kampanie :-) - thanxalotpuri
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    (now that we have a translation, I remove my post with the google-translation)
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    What I understand from translating parts of Petr text by google, it's all accusations towards Roman.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    I heard many years ago and a couple of days ago again that Old GUru and Mahaprbu-ji were in a kind of disagrement. We can also read in the Lila Amrit that Old GUru wasn't with Mahaprabuji at the time of his death and is not clear when they met the last time but it looks more like years than days before Mahaprabuji's death. What I heard a few days ago is that Mahaprabu-ji trew Old GUru out of his ashram and now we can imagine why. It looks also that swAmi never met Mahaprabu-ji in person even if he was already a swami when Mahaprabu-ji died. Anyone knows anything about this?
    Pavitra
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    I browsed again Lila Amrit, and between receiving letter (march 1963) and his vision of Mahaprabhuji departing (december 1963), yes, it looks like only month's inbetween, and the possible disagreement is an interesting information; from where does this information initially come from? Mahaprabhuji announced when he's gonna leave this world, if we stick to the written word, and even Old GUru couldn't believe it: "As I was unwilling to believe this announcement, he urged, - Tell me, what is your greatest wish so that latr on you may not regret having missed this opportunity. - "

    Well, if Satguru tell's you such a thing and you wholeheartedly surrendered, than every word is the Law, isn't it? Why doubt if he said it clearly, "I'm leaving...". Or is it just dramatic element in the Lila scenario...? and than afterwards, the version of Mahaprabhuji's Lila is written by Old GUru and did Mahaprabhuji appoint him as the rightful succesor of his lineage?
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    Is Lila Amrit only afterwards re-construction, personal version of the holy saint and making the story big and universal to appeal to the larger audience?

    Old GUru's answer was:
    "Holy Master, I ask just for one thing, that my concentration be directed only to you at any place, at any time. That all your devotees be blessed and led in your omnipotence to achieve brahmananda (Divine bliss). I wish for millions of people to live by your blessing so that the world's suffering will be relieved."

    First part of the prayer concentrates on his own bhakti and that he may continue to concentrate solely on Him - everywhere, and second one has the "universal part" in it, including the whole world and other people.
    If I take the information that someone wrote before, that initial Lila Amrit version, first version in hindi (making here a feeble 'psychological' connection, but nonetheless), was not exceeding the limits of the Rajasthan-village, than this wish "for millions of people" can perfectly be an additional element, as it makes it more universal...did at that specific moment of place and time, he really ment the europeans, africans, japanese etc...for the whole world to live by his blessing...aren't we living by the Grace of God/Divine etc. already? and in many books you can read from all the Master's, this appeal for the universality of the specific message, the specific lineage and the message of the Master and everything becomes unversally valid afterwards, well, God ordained it...and we are the privileged messengers of God---just some thoughts, but this 'literary structure' that can be seen in all the books, shows the reality of the Symbolic/appropriate story-lines that will construct the necessary belief-structure for us the subjects, to accept the Truth and live by it - by the STORY/narration, that was once TOLD/written about...isn't the whole reality more or less "that which is told to us"...meaning we already live in the Symbolic, by the Symbolic and "we are told what to do and believe...."
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    @pavitra: someone mentioned before at this forum that swAmi in reality may have been born in 1952 instead of 1945. That could explain why he never met Mahaprabhuji. swAmi's supposed to have lived with old gUru from his 13th, so that would be 1965 or 1966, so after the death of Mahaprabhuji in 1963.
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