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When teacher turns into cheater
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Next to already discussed Sai Baba elsewhere on this forum here is another example of such famous 'enlightened' guru with thousands of mislead disciples.

    Please read this nice article about Maharishi swami and his Transcendental Meditation Movement... and find 5 similarities with "our" swAmi and his YiDL (R) ;-))

    http://onwww.net/unstress4less.org/transcendental_meditation-harmful-personal-lies.htm

    It's well known fact that even The Beatles went to his ashram to meditate. And maybe not so well known fact is that after their stay disillusioned John Lennon wrote a song about Maharishi:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_Sadie




  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    good tm-link...quote: "Do you ever wonder if a Vedic Kingdom is the best form of government? Have you ever read any history about how kingdoms function? Does it make any sense that "God created a perfect constitution in the Vedas?" Have you ever read this "perfect constitution?" Do you wonder about how a Vedic Kingdom would co-exist with a Democracy? Are you aware that Maharishi runs the TM Movement like a Vedic Kingdom, viz. as a dictatorship with one man having absolute unquestioned control over everything? Is this your idea of a perfect world?

    Do you ever notice paranoia in the movement? Have you heard that some members of the community are having their letters monitored? Do you ever wonder if this paranoia actually comes from Maharishi? Would you be afraid if others saw you reading this letter? Can you even discuss and debate these points inside the TM Movement?"

    -----__---_----united under the "One"...where spirituality coincides with totalitarianism...
    it doesn't work, it can work as a commune or a cult (united under one Father law), but not as democratic society, where information can freely circulate and we are free to explore on our own...but it's obvious that you can not question the organisation you are in, as it undermines the reasons of why are you in the organisation in the first place...it's simple and banal logic,,that if you want to remain in a certain club, you must not question the rules of the club nor its Head or the Leader, otherwise you are not goint to be there...you can not question Authority, and at the same time remain as free individual within the community...it's simple and obvious...and whoever remains, remains in the name of the protection of the "Father-figure", that you belong to...it's like vicious circle...as long as you are in, you are in, and there are certain rules (otherwise go and open your own club) and if you do not follow rules or you question them, you are not fit to be here...in that sense, there is "no real freedom" under the law of the Mighty Father...all the subservient subjects will remain just that, sub-servient, praising the Project of our 'Father'!...

    unless, you want to praise the "Project of the Other", and spread the Idea further, that's something different...than you can freely continue, to speak and work in the Name of Thy Father!
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Some additional information about The Beatles and the Maharishi:
    http://www.thebeatlesinindia.com/stories/sexmoney.html

    One quote from Paul McCartney: "We made a mistake. We thought there was more to him than there was. He's human. We thought at first that he wasn't."
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    It is just as simple as that... He's human. :/
  • speakup May 2011
    Posts: 57
    Being human might help explain bad behaviour but it does not excuse it! If we are really talking about 'you know who' - yes he is human, but exercising power in a way that is harming people is unethical and morally wrong! Being human does not justify the use of lying, manipulation and sexual abuse. This is particularly the case when you are presenting yourself and some enlightened avatar with a higher level of realisation than other 'mere mortals'! With power comes responsibility!
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    Speakup, yes, I agree. The comment "He's human" is way off the mark. Especially in our case here: He's not just human. Yes, he's got a human body, but his consciousness is far, far above what we can imagine. So, if he misused his elevated level for gain (material, sexual, emotional..), it means he's double evil: Humans can make mistakes, but "higher beings", should not. If they do misuse powers, well, doesn't it put them on the level of Asuras? Please, I invite the silent majority to come in here: Many people know that Sw. has incredible Siddhis. Please, don't stay silent. Speak. Asuras, demons, can have Siddhis. I'm not saying Sw. is, but it would help for disciples to come forward and express their opinions. Check out http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/abusive_guru.html about abusive gurus.
    Check this link for an explanation on gurus with "powers" who misbehave: http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/IMZ_guru.html
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @John_Sceptic:
    Well your nick does not really suit your convictions.
    Do you have any proof beside projections?

    Sometimes we see something, just because we want to see it, even though it is not there.
  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    I think that the conviction that swAmi has siddhis comes from a simple psychological mechanism. People are concentrating on him and on his words intensely and when something happens by coincidence it's seen in a much more spectacular way than it happens with people in our everyday experience. So when swAmi accidentally mentions something applying to you personally you understand this as very significant. The same thing could be spoken by anybody and you wouldn't notice it because you're not concentrating intently on him and his "powers".
    When something like this happens people tend also to exegerate.
    Good example is Tony and people believing him having powers. I remember that some people from Australian group were convinced that Harihara**nd reads minds... For instance while being on yoga I had feeling that number 108 is hunting me down- I've seen it everywhere, I even had it on my registration plate (1108 actually). Then I tried to concentrate on a randomly picked number (I had chosen 84) to see. And guess what- it started appearing everywhere.
    Only that he sometimes uses informants and some devices (as described vividly by Roman). When he uses such information and pretends he had acquired them by siddhi it's a powerful weapon combined with the mechanism of broken leg. (When you break your leg you see everywhere people with cast you usually don't notice).
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    I can say it happened to me several times that some question had appeared in my mind and swAmi answered it on that very day, for example during the evening satsang (without me asking him). It was quite impressive. This probably cannot be ascribed to his ability of reading others' mind, but at the same time for me it was something more than just coincidence and it had some spiritual meaning.
    Swami could/can serve as channel for very personal messages from God (regardless he had sex with his female disciples). In fact all other people can serve as such for us if we want to (and for that purpose they don't need to be saintly at all). God is within everyone of us, so He can use anyone as "medium" for speaking to somebody else - even without "the medium" is aware of the hidden meaning of his words for us. The person can speak about something quite different, but in his words we can hear the special message for us.. It just depends on whether we want to hear such things or not.
    With the numbers it's the same. First we can see the frequent appearing of the number we concentrate on as an indication that the world outside us is kind of mirror of our mind. And second thing is that we can see the appearing of our picked number as "a sign" in certain situations. Or we can just see it as mere coincidence. Everything just depends on our own point of view. We see what we want to see. But when we have spiritual questions and seek sincerely for answers, then the answers can appear anywhere and through whatever means. Not only in the talks of the swAmi or others, but we can spot the answer as some phrase in a book or a magazine, in a movie, song... Or it can be written on a billboard or on a truck which just passed us by. Or even as a registration number of a car going before us in traffic.. There are so many ways :) But we have always the freedom to see it or not to see...
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @SunYaC:
    Exactly- Recognition is a process that happens within, not without. It can be triggered by events from outside and if you spend a lot of time, keeping yourself busy with listening to Swami, you will get your answers there, if you are in the right state of mind. But on the other hand, if you'd prefer to watch the Simpsons, you might find your daily enlightenment there as well. But you would not claim, that the writer of the Simpsons had any supernatural powers, would you? So it is all in the eyes of the beholder.
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218
    The Falst Guru test seems to have struck a cord here in the West because of the outrageous abuses and exploitation by gurus, many self-proclaimed and completely misguided.

    Here is the ultimate Guru Test:

    TAKE THE FALSE GURU TEST. If seven or more of the following describes your guru or spiritual teacher, then unfortunately he or she may not be be as enlightened or good for your soul as you would like to believe:

    1) States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers.

    2) Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teaching; they do not take kindly to ordinary unenlightened individuals questioning them. They or their organisations will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans.

    3) Acts omnipotently with no accountability: Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. Unjust or outrageous behaviour by the guru is passed off as what is needed to help the followers grow (how kind). These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students. A real master respects your will even if he or she understands that your particular decisions may not be in your interest, and he or she will act accountably to an ethical code of conduct.

    4) Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it: It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points in the same way that the scholars in the middle ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Any fool can talk about the end goal because what is said is irrefutable to most of your listeners. What is skillful is guiding those listeners to having awakening within themselves. The real teacher focuses on the path and strictly avoids any talk on enlightenment.

    5) Does not practice what is preached: Contrary to spiritual myth, you don't reach a point of realization whereby you can then start acting mindlessly. If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way, at least most of the time, showing suitable regret for any lapses). If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live in austere conditions, so should he.

    6) Takes the credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: The fact is that meditation and guided visualisation work. Anyone doing them will experience major changes, benefits and realizations. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques so that she has something unique to attract followers. And she will hijack the effects of meditation as the guru's blessing rather than each individuals natural potential. Often the students or followers are forbidden from divulging the techniques to maintain a sort of intellectual property right, usually under the guise of needing the technique to be taught correctly.

    7) Specifically gives satsang or darshan when it is not part of his culture: Darshan is when the disciples or students of a master line up and to pass their master, who is usually seated, with either a bow or traditionally kissing their feet (yes it does happen). In the East, this is part of their culture and a normal thing to do to show respect and reverence (even children will kiss the feet of their fathers). However, here in the West, such copycat behaviour is a strong indication that the guru is acting a role. Satsang, on the other hand, means literally "the company of the Truth". In a deeper sense it is an affirmation of the Guru-Disciple relationship in Eastern traditions. But some Western gurus will use this terminology because they are playing a role.

    8) Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being wealthy. But when that luxury turns to unnecessary opulence using funds that were not explicity donated for that purpose then you are probably dealing with a false guru. Money is collected from followers usually in the form of donations, and those donations are given as an act of love, appreciation and to help spread the influence of the master. However, a genuine master is more likely to use such wealth to lessen the suffering in this world, not to buy another yacht, private jet or Rolls Royce.

    9) Encourages or permits adoration from his followers: Avoid any group that focuses on the "master" themselves rather than the teachings or spiritual practices. This will be a hindrance to your self-realisation for your focus will be drawn outside of yourself, and usually indicates that there is not a lot more on offer than guru worship.

    10) Presents himself or herself overly fashionably and glamorously: Beware of masters who present glamour photographs of themselves and dress overly fashionably (whilst proclaiming that they have no ego and leading ego-death retreats). Yes it does happen!

    11) Demands love and devotion from their students: Keep clear of any master who demands love and devotion. One very well known Western guru stated, "Anyone who loves me is guaranteed enlightenment"! Real love and devotion is earned over time when we begin to really know the whole person and not their public image.

    12) Speaks with an Indian accent or vernacular when he is in fact a Westerner: Not sure how much this happens now but there are some high profile Western gurus who have (or had) Indian accents, mannerisms and vernacular. Unless they have genuinely spent considerable time in other cultures, they are probably playing out a role.

    13) Runs expensive miracle workshops and courses: You are unlikely to reach enlightenment after a few weekend workshops with cheesy titles. In our society of "must have now", we want to be able to purchase spiritual development with minimal fuss. Also, avoid meaningless accreditation — it is often used merely to encourage followers to do more courses.

    14) Takes sexual advantage of his or her followers: This happens much more than many believe. It is not being prudish to include this one because when a follower falls under the spell of a guru he or she is likely to do anything for the Chosen One. It is only afterwards that it may dawn on the follower that his or her openness has been used and abused. This can be very psychologically scarring.
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218
    Continued:

    15) Flatters you and treats you as very special: Sure we are all special in some ways, but this is one of the things that a false guru may do to hook a potential follower or to get a current follower to do a particular task. Nothing can be more intoxicating to the ego than to be selected by the master or leader (or any high profile person). A real master will stand back and allow you to make your decision whether to accept his or her teachings without trying to influence the process.

    16) Talks bollocks: It is surprising what a person will listen to when he or she is devoted to the speaker. It is always a good idea to get hold of a written transcript of what has been said and really read the message. Then tell an open-minded friend who is not a follower what their opinion is purely on the strength of the words. You will soon find out whether there is any real substance to the teacher's message, or whether you are merely being drawn in by the charisma of the messenger.

    17) Overly relies on slick presentation: Slick presentation can often mask poor content, and so it is important for you to look past the lovely music and video shows at the actual message. The slicker the presentation, the harder it is to see what exactly the teaching is.

    18) Gives him or herself outrageous titles: Not satisfied by being "merely" an enlightened being, many false gurus give themselves titles (or allow their followers to do so) to indicate that they are literally God-Incarnate, the reincarnation of the Buddha or Christ, or THE chosen one. Some continually change their names, to keep pace with their burgeoning egos.

    19) Runs abundance workshops: A guru or master is there to help us find an authentic life. This is nothing to do with becoming more successful at work or making more money, although this may or may not follow from being more authentic. There is nothing wrong with abundance weekends, but if we mistake spirituality for increased business success, then we are guilty of spiritual materialism and we find ourselves deeper in the illusion. (The Japanese say that the Gods laugh at those who pray for money.)

    20) Is not interested in you personally: If a teacher or guru does not have time to interact with you personally, then you may as well read his teaching from a book, because merely being in his presence doesn't help you find realization inside you. You may model some of his spiritual characteristics, but that often only places you deeper in illusion.

    21) Allows his followers to set up a hierarchy of access: A guru must be accessible. If he is not, or if he allows his followers to block your access, then he is playing the role of a king and not a spiritual guide. A guru is only useful to the process of awakening if you can directly interact with him. With the false guru, it is often the case of the more you donate the greater your access.

    22) Makes false claims of lineage: Many mistakenly believe that realisation can only happen under the guidance of a realized master. In this belief system, gurus are only authentic when they come from a line or lineage of realized gurus. Desperate not to be left out, some gurus claim a false lineage of enlightened masters to bolster their authority to teach. Another pseudo form of "lineage" is to recount a miracle that once happened to them (maybe they cured themselves of some disease or God spoke to them personally) which infers that they are "chosen" and therefore have the authority to set themselves up as teachers and gurus.

    23) Presents themselves as non-profit whilst raking in the millions: Often, the false prophet will present her teachings for free, whilst strongly encouraging her devotees to make large donations. In this way she can appear above money considerations, whilst maintaining her greed and opulence.

    24) Collects a large band of angry ex-followers: This is an indication that something is seriously wrong. If she has used kindness and love in her interactions with her students, and has discouraged them from projecting denied spiritual characteristics onto the guru (rather than encouraging their integration into the self), then it is extremely unlikely that there would be more than a few disheartened ex's. Many might drift away and feel they have wasted their time, but they are only likely to have the great anger if they have put their teacher on a pedestal, given him their power, and later realized that he was never worthy of such adoration. Contrary to what some believe, it is actually the teacher's responsibility to strongly discourage students from putting them on pedestals, for this is counterproductive to finding realisation inside.

    25) Uses pseudo-technology: Many false prophets and organisations base themselves around pseudo-technology in the effort to appear scientific — special meters, communication devices (do you really expect the aliens to use a mobile?) and energy clearing instruments and pendants that involve crystals and copper wire. Once again, this is to distract the unwary from the poor quality of the actual teaching.

    26) Acts like a complete paranoid mad person: If your Precious One acts like a complete paranoid schizophrenic or psychotic then he or she probably is. Run! Remember that there is no such thing as "crazy wisdom"—wisdom is the art of being balanced. However charismatic they may be, and sane between moments of madness, you WILL be damaged by them.

    Source: http://www.energygrid.com/spirit/ap-falsegurutest.html
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    nice one
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218
    According to my observations, he scored 14 out of 26.
    In some cases, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

    So, everyone here, please post your score.
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    18 out of 26.
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    I guess this is due to my "cynical nature": 20 out of 26. But I still was giving him the benefit of the doubt (I thought :)
  • speakup May 2011
    Posts: 57
    LOL - 17 out of 26 for me

    John-sceptic - not sure about the siddhis, I have had some powerful 'experiences' - but then I also think that at times I was in some sort of trance in his presence - so would have believed anything - this trance state I think makes us very vulnerable to manipulation.

    I can remember when I first started attending programs and satsang where he was present I would observe a quite a lot of people looking completely spaced out, eyes a bit glassy and in some sort of dream - I remember thinking what the heck are they on? But then after a couple of years I became a zombie too!

    There is no doubt he is very charismatic and the way he speaks and looks at you is very hypnotic - but I now feel very sceptical about the whole 'show'.
    Interested to know what other people think about the use of trance and hypnosis?
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218

    This is how the human mind can be manipulated:
    (Quite scary)


    Watch Derren Brown Mind Control - Invisible Man in Entertainment  |  View More

    And another very interesting documentry with Derren Brown:



    And another short clip:

  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    Veritas & Roman & others: I would like to come back to the FALSE GURU TEST. As from my point of view swAmi would score 50 at least (I would double the score on some points), I have a suggestion: could we work out together with the Score table courtesy of Veritas and many facts exposed in this forum, a nice document to send and give to swAmi's followers and potential new recruits as an advice or a checking list they can use and come to their own conclusions? I think that if we put together a nice (and funny) document like that, it could be also something to give to the press or a wider public. What do you think Roman?
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @pavitra:
    Wow, 50 out of 26 possible is quite a score.
    I think you will win with that score.
    (The price for the winner is a weekend-seminar about clearing the chakras) image

    Btw, this list was taken from http://www.energygrid.com/spirit/ap-falsegurutest.html
    All the credits to the author.

    Maybe Roman could start a new thread and everyone can post their experiences and observations according to the numbers #1 - #26 in this thread. Then we can make the document you suggested. Thanks for your input.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    The arrest of war criminal Ratko Mladic in Serbia reminded me of the reaction of Nirwanpuri to Chidanand's statement and the comparison of Chidanand (his Christian name is Slobodan Milicevic) with the former Serbian president Slobodan Milosevic:


    Nirwanpuri, Vancouver, March 18, 2011

    "Hari Om, here is a translation in English of my answer to Slobodan Milicevic. As a former member of Novi Sad ashram I felt obliged to react. I would appreciate if you read this. --------------------------------
    Slobodan, I was very surprised to receive a letter from you, for the first time in 25 years that I've known you. I am shocked by this flood of toxic lies and manipulations that come from you. And I am very hurt by what you did to me, my immediate family and my yoga family to which I belong for almost 25 years.
    In a series of shocking things that I hear about you one stands out - your recent admiration for the character and life work of Slobodan Milosevic, a war criminal, whose rule we jointly suffered during the 90-ies. In the same category belongs your threat with a neo-fascist organization "Obraz" directed to XXXXX's disciples in Novi Sad. These notorious thugs are defaming our Orthodox Christian Church by hiding behind it while using baseball bats as the only means of argument.
    If I learned anything during my life, including Milosevic's rule marked by the war and terror in the former Yugoslavia, and including the last 8 years in my new Canadian home, it's that evil, terror and violence against us or against other innocent people should not be observed calmly, but that we should use every force to resist them. So I decided to break my silence and stand up to you.
    I will try to follow Gandhiji's advice, which XXXXX so often mentioned, and not attack you personally but your actions. With your activities in recent months you managed to completely shred into pieces my dear Novi Sad yoga family. You deprived me of wonderful memories and connections with people with whom I practically grew up, became family and friend... A family portrait with one hundred and something people, which I proudly held in my heart all these years, you've thrown into the fire with your threats, toxic lies and manipulations.
    A painful vision still plagues me - many dear friends disappearing from my life in a hurricane. Just as you used to be an excellent student of XXXXX, now you've proven yourself to be a committed student of Slobodan Milosevic, a criminal who used fear-mongering to impose terror against innocent people and incite them to engage in war and violence. And all under the pretext of his "concern for the people". I remember vividly how in Kosovo in 1989 he pretended to get up in the protection of the oppressed and encouraged them to revolt. His cunning and manipulation resulted in a bloody conflict in which thousands lost their lives. The fact that he ended up in the prison for war criminals offers no satisfaction to his victims.
    Disguised behind your supposed care for XXXXX's students is the stink of your hate, ambition and unscrupulousness. Is it the end of it or do we still have to suffer to satisfy you? I do not know whether to even start to analyze your list of supposed crimes of my Guru. In your enthusiasm you got carried so far that I ended reading it in an uproarious laugher. Is there even one crime in this world for which you didn't accuse XXXXX? He would need a whole new life and hundreds of accessory to commit all this. And yet at the same time without anyone around him noticing that. I'll of course avoid the mistake that many have made - to keep some pieces of your list in which they think they could believe.
    I reject your list as a whole. I know that you do not expect anyone to believe in all this. For you it's enough if only one thing from that list enters their mind - it would be enough to destroy the trust that is essential for the spiritual development of disciples. I admired your lucidity always. Now, mixed with the poison of lies, it seems very powerful and a source which is difficult to defend against. I suffer actual injury from you, while you accuse XXXXX for an amazing set of mischiefs which no one in our yoga family has even seen with their own eyes, let alone, god forbid, suffered.
    Slobodan Milosevic has made the most damage to his own people. The stigma of his crime we, his compatriots, carry forever and we are forced to always prove our own innocence and humanity. So are the victims of your hate mostly those closest to you - the video team and Novi Sad ashram.
    I'm now also marked, as a former member of the ashram, as the manipulator, a man without pity and with a short memory. But let it be, this will force me to serve with even more devotion, to be a better man and to try to change this prejudice about us through my selfless work. In a way I am grateful for this because I'll become a better disciple of XXXXX. Would the world ever hear of Hanuman's devotion was it not for Ravana? As many of us stood up against Milosevic, so do not doubt that in Serbia there are still brave and conscientious disciples who will oppose your terror."
    Nirwanpuri XXXXX Vancouver 223 W Broadway www.vanyoga.com


    I know this is old, not very important news and it doesn't change any of swAmi's misdeeds, but I'm wondering if anyone on this forum from Serbia or former Yugoslavia knows if there's any truth in the claims that Chidanand has sympathy for Slobodan Milosevic and that he has threatened swAmi's (now ex-?) disciples in Novi Sad with sending the neo-fascist organization "Obraz" after them? Is this all just a fabrication or is there any truth in it?

  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @truthseeker:
    I don't know anything about questions in last paragraph. But I have one question for Nirwanpuri from Vancouver:
    Do you know that there was (and possibly is) one person in your Vancouver ashram who mentioned to me certain sexual misconduct allegations of your guru about 12 years ago (it was supposed to happen in Europe)? It sounded really credible but I did not have any direct knowledge, no real information. I am sorry that I could not help him/her better with my answer. I did not or did not want to believe at the time. My answer to him/her was to follow his/her heart. To trust those he/she knows that they can be trusted. After that we’ve never spoken again.
    This whole thing has nothing to do with Cici. I did not speak to him nor had any other contact with him for over ten years. Even if he was a devil incarnated, how many people would like everybody to believe, it does not change the fact that people were cheated, manipulated, screwed and f...d by your guru. What you are doing is called diversion. That's all what is to it. This is not about yoga, this is not about buildings, families found or lost, ashrams and ex-disciples. This is about the real facts. Facts being looked at without diversions.

    Roman
  • illusion July 2011
    Posts: 5
    Where is Nirwanpuri's letter published originally? I don't see it in this forum. I would like to reply to him if the letter is published somewhere. Thanks!
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    Please read Chidanand's letter again, here you can find his saying about Milosevic, of course he is not defending it but just using his black humor that was taken literary by Nirwanpuri that is biting words, taken out of context. Chichi in his deeds and mind is the last that would defend Milosevic.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @karavan: I can't find anything in Chidanand's English statement about Milosevic, or am I missing something? Maybe there's a Serbo-Croatian version of the statement in which he says something about Milosevic?
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    I checked and didnt find too, perhaps it was taken out not to make more fuss. It was just a black humor remark about thanks to Milosevich that made Serbia closed behind its borders and something was not able to spread thanks to this- i forgot what was this - they took out only the words "thanks to Milosevic". It was as Chichi always made jokes and was meant funny, but they took it out to attack him.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @karavan: all right, thanks for clarifying this. My conclusion is that Nirwanpuri's mail was part of the disinformation campaign led by swAmi to confuse his followers. SwAmi was in Vancouver at that time and he may have urged Nirwanpuri to write it.

    And Chichi was maybe right that for the YIDL people it was good in a way that Serbia was closed off from the rest of Europe in those days. Apart from all the horror that the Serbians in general experienced (and that they caused), the good thing for the YIDL people was that they couldn't be abused by swAmi.
  • Durchanand May 2011
    Posts: 74
    Reply to @truthseeker:

    that´s right - or as Chichi put it: "We were the least f***ed nation in YIDL..."
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @truthseeker:
    OMG "And Chichi was maybe right that for the YIDL people it was good in a way that Serbia was closed off from the rest of Europe in those days. Apart from all the horror that the Serbians in general experienced (and that they caused), the good thing for the YIDL people was that they couldn't be abused by swAmi."
    what an argument...yes, lucky them, better to have war than S..... OMG

    BTW it is all bulls***t...Chichi, and all of them were regularly on all seminars (maybe less people in Hungary because of the visa, but Strilky, Croatia, Slovenia...)

  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    Reply to @oviss: Because of the visa problems there weren't so many Serbian devotees in inner circle out of which swAmi recruted women. Only attending seminar programs wasn't enough to be picked up. Most of women came from the most close circle of organizers, sevakas, or people living in Vienna and India. Women only visiting programs were more safe. He never picked randomly, out of crowd. serbia had it's trauma before 1991. Any reliable info on scandal in Belgrade in late eighties? Back in ninghties I have heard a story that Belgrade ashram was disolved because some "crazy" girl accused swAmi for rape.
  • NoviSadCalling July 2011
    Posts: 175
    Reply to @Ivan:

    At least 2 or 3 persons from Novi Sad group that remained in Y**L are aware of sex scandals in Belgrade, back then in 80's.

    Still, they are not "convinced" that this ever happened. Neither then in 80's, nor ever since. It was clear from their responses on any such question asked on Novi Sad ex-y**l group last meeting. "Ignorance is bliss", especially self-induced ignorance.
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Devotees' testimonies:

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Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz

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Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de

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Devotee #6

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Devotee #7

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