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sex abuse scandal, Part II
  • Durchanand May 2011
    Posts: 74
    Reply to @truthseeker: Have a look here. This is a link leading to the Hamburg Himalaya institutes statement about the allegations against Swami Rama from the nineties also concerning sexual abuse: http://www.himalaya-institut.de/philosophie.php

    This statement is only in German but it shows us how a board can treat the whole thing in an orderly way. There was no judgement against Swami Rama but the Honesdale Institute was sentenced to pay money to the persons concerned because the institute had not done anything to clear the whole thing. The German board says that they are against any form of misuse of power and they take a distance to all positions who wanted to cover up the whole thing.

    If someone has a bit more time and thinks it is worth you could translate it.
  • PallasAthene May 2011
    Posts: 246
    Reply to @Durchanand: Thanks to google translator.


    Response of the Himalayan Institute eV on the allegations of sexual abuse against Swami Rama

    In the 1990s there was an indictment of the Himalayan International Institute in Honesdale (USA) because of sexual abuse of students by his spiritual leader Swami Rama. A verdict against Swami Rama did not return in the U.S.. However, the Himalayan Institute in Honesdale sentenced to a heavy fine because the data collected by the concerned allegations against Swami Rama of the Institute of Management had not been pursued.

    An American Yoga Journal reported several years ago about this process and the management of the Institute with the abuse allegations (1). These reports are documented on the Internet (2). In Germany, the incidents were discussed, based on American sources by the journalist Mathias Tietke in two books and two articles (3). As representatives of the Himalayan Institute eV in Germany, we wish to make clear our position on the subject in view of its background..

    To take an advantage of dependency relationships, whether in physical, emotional or sexual abuse and any form of power over students, we reject without reservation. We encourage the people who go on a spiritual path of practice, a self-responsible attitude that is characterized by clear intellectual discernment. We distinguish us clearly from idealizations like those which are often surrounding a teacher likewise Swami Rama.

    Although the teachings from the tradition of the Elders of the Himalayas, which were brought to the West by Swami Rama, have a high value for us, we will not further carry on fixed doctrines. Our goal is to promote the independent growth in contest with the teachings, so that it can be vitalized in every individual in a distinct manner. Since we are critical of any enhancement of teachers' personalities, we maintain an open, dialogue-oriented attitude. Since 1981, we are committed as an independent institution to join Germany in the Yoga of the Himalayan tradition with ideas of Western psychology and education. These lessons help the seeker to come to the inner center of consciousness in contact in order to become independent and self-contained of external teachers.

    .
    Between the independent bodies of the organization, which are the result of the international actions of Swami Rama, there is no consensus assessment of the incidents. As leaders of a democratic and non-profit association, which carries the Himalayan Institute in Germany, we distance ourselves expressly from all positions that contribute to the concealment or denial of the subject. Repeatedly criticized the handling of the American Himalayan International Institute in Honesdale with the allegations in 1990, is not our stance on the issue. We have always been, as well organizationally as in all decisions with regards to content, completely independent of the American Himalayan Institute.


    We see a responsibility to the members of our association, the participants of our trainings and courses as well as to the general public to throw light on and to inform them. Above all the incidents and the criticism pledge us to discuss basic questions, they directly affect our self-understanding, and to resolve them thoughtfully.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @PallasAthene: :) :) :)... and thank you for the translation :)
  • Durchanand May 2011
    Posts: 74
    sorry - can´t put the post above where it belongs (under truthseekers link with Himalaya Institute) and cannot cancel the double post...
  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    We have to understand that YIDL is organized in circles surrounding swAmi. We are mostly addressing the inner circle who know him personally and to whom everything may sound perfectly clear. There is a small chance for the people from outside circles who didn't have much personal contacts with swAmi to fully appreciate the stories coming out. There are two swAmis: one is a smiling perfect teacher sitting on pedestal and the another is a man you have to deal on everyday basis. This is the reason why the people from inner circle are always rotating- coming and going. Check older YIDL publications (20 years of swAmi in Europe) and there you will see many people of whom no one is still there. You’ll see swamis Muktanand, Advaitanand, Gitanand, Bhajananand, Cidanand and countless other people and organizers who have disappeared. And it is not because of great guru-pressure but because many of them have seen the real side of the story. Two ex swAmis you have on the forum. To such people we address these lines because other will have much more difficulty to understand. Other people should investigate and understand the cult system. Please as the spiritual seekers you should have opened eyes and appreciate all information and only than bring the decision which should be the most honest one to yourself.
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    reply @ SunYaC and in general:
    Quote: ..." to find genuine spiritual knowledge and not to be cheated again, then the Supreme Lord will arrange his life in such a way, that sooner or later he meets the real guru who doesn't soft-soap his disciples by cheap and easy-to-follow teachings and sweet talks..."

    Response: ...isn't the 'Supreme Lord' arranging everything, be you believer or not?, and if he/she/it arranges it, I hope it doesn't arrange it in some "Big Daddy" way, sitting on some cloud, somewhere "there", as an OBJECT;)...aren't we already (in) the 'WATER'?; they say, wave is a part of the ocean etc., some say, but still "wave " is not the "ocean"; it's quality is the same as ocean but it is not the ocean itself etc., some say, wave IS the ocean, you cannot discern the two; wave doesn't have the essential meaning outside of the ocean etc...in fact both are ocean, if we pursue this example and both are water, and if we are "wave of the ocean", than we are already "THAT water", want it or not; or, let's dive deep into the waters of consciousness, below the surface levels of it and there we will find Peace and Bliss and real Contentment and THAT YOU ARE! TAT TVAM ASI! (pure consciousness=I am not the body=duality=difference; even if you have spiritual body and you have personal relation with your God, there is still duality between you and the Supreme Lord; Bhakti yoga of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu aka Krishna movement and Rasa Lila between Krishna and the gopis, teaches this final and exalted relation with the Supreme Godhead, but still, you cannot but see in those descriptions the 'sensual bearing', some sort of spiritual sensuality personified with Krishna as the Privileged Lover of the Gopis/souls - and gopis are here presented as females and Krishna being the Male, in a sense, you have to surrender yourself, become submissive, 'womanlike' and if you want to have rasa with Krishna you have to be the 'passive'/female player - in some sense, via psychoanalytical perspective, this relation invites you to see some sort of homoerotic component ingrained in the pursuits of participating in Krishna Lila; every man has to become a gopi, female servant of God, to be 'enjoyed' by Krishna; but if we are souls and not bodies, like they say than how come that in spiritual world there is this material division of male and female; and if you have form in the highest spiritual world I wonder if the spiritual form has all the organs, like mouth and anus and what is their real function there?, maybe they have some transcendental function...; some say, that this world is in fact made or is 'derived' from the spiritual world and all the Love and relations that we know here are 'transcriptions' of that real and divine relation we had with Supreme Lord while being Souls in Heaven with our Heavenly Father, again United under ONE - sounds like fairytale and we cannot be helped by some transcendental god, unless god has his/her/its own stake HERE in the game and is inseparable from it, and this WORK here must have consequence to whatever REAL world THERE!!! Divine Transcendence is already here, Phenomenal World is the Transcendence ITSELF in ACTION, until Goloka becomes realizable here, till than, work continues;))), but Jehova's witness also speak about Heaven on Earth and collecting the apples from apple trees with tigers and pandas, who knows...;). But if I am THAT, than I am THAT!, no fear of loosing THAT if I am already THAT/Death;))), if everything is in God or is God's or is God, than everything is again this 'water', can there be something out of the water which is not OF the 'water'?...and one 'water' meets the other 'water' and than they play games of 'father', 'mother', 'sister', 'brother', 'master' etc...maybe this water 'knows'/reflects itself only through these 'forms', roles, self-reflexions through Other water, but basically all is water, so what is the difference?, it looks as if we go out of the water to become water "for the Other water" and than back to the Water again and realizing that we were water all the time in all circumstances, and they say we were never born nor we will ever die, and "sub specie aeternitatis" nothing ever happened...;) it's divine paradox;)

    Quote: "We just need to develop the desire in our heart to find genuine guru and not to be cheated again by some other false swami."

    Response: We can never really know who is real guru even if he comes from the most authentic lineage, how can we know who is genuine guru? and why search for the genuine guru, and I would say if he exists, than he has probably several disciples and I would imagine that he will sooner or later kick their assess and say: now F...K off, it's time to go on your own, I don't need dependent disciples as I am not the dependent Master, you learnt what you had to learn, now F...K off!

    Quote: "We must be willing to accept also not too pleasant preaching from the spiritual teacher. Real spiritual teacher calls things as they are and doesn't always have just full mouth of "how much he loves us". We must be ready to accept also heavy and hard-to-digest statements from him."

    Response: Yes, we need whips and 'torture' to crush our ego's, to 'die' while alive!;) as you said: "But to be able to surrender to such a teacher also requires to throw away our pride and ego."

    Quote: "proverb says: "When the disciple is ready, the master will appear."

    Response: I say another way around: "When the Master is ready the disciples will appear!";)

    Quote: To find him we only need to really want the real and not the false. When we have such desire in our heart, everything else will be arranged then by superior power ;)

    Response: Than we are saved and can remain happy. It's that easy and it's magickal.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @batawe: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    ;))
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    I'm getting happy from all this smiling between batawe and someonefromhungary :-)
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    that's nice, positive effects are already there and spreading around the 'town';)))
  • PallasAthene May 2011
    Posts: 246
    "When the Master is ready the disciples will appear!";)

    hmm...i'm difficult, i'm a woman...:)
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @PallasAthene: don't worry, you are the goddess of wisdom, civilization, warfare, strength, strategy, female arts, crafts, justice and skill, so you have plenty to offer :-)
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    Thank you for your another deep comment batawe... :) .....but..... haven't you already promised that you would write in a more simple way? ;)))

    I'm not sure if I will manage to comment on it more and if this is the right place for such profound philosophic discussions ;) , but for now I'll mention only one thing relating directly to the topic of this forum:

    "When the Master is ready the disciples will appear!"

    If this inverted proverb had been true, then the swAmi was ready, because he got so many disciples. But it seems he was not ready. He succumbed to temptations of Maya in the form of female bodies.. The only way how this proverb can be true is that at best the swAmi was ready for cheating, so he attracted us, many disciples who (maybe subconsciously) wanted/could be cheated and didn't truly desire to get genuine spiritual master and knowledge.
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @SunYaC: I think Batawe wrote his comment a little simpler. I understand must of what he says, I believe. :)
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @truthseeker: Yes, it was simpler, but for simple person like me there are still quite a lot different thoughts in one comment to respond.. without falling into writing even much more lengthy comment :))
  • lanterna June 2011
    Posts: 9
    Hello to everyone!

    In the beginning, I must admit I was a little bit suspicious about this web-site and about the intentions of the author, Roman, or some other people. In the "open letter" Roman said that after renouncing swamihood, he just cut off all the ties with YIDL and his yidl friends. For me, it was a tiny bit surprising that a person who has no more connections with such a nasty organization found out among first few about this huge scandal. And I was wondering how it is possible and I wondered about the motifs for the big action of an ex-swami… At first, I didn't believe the victims and all their accusations, lot of things were fishy to me in this story. But, after some time, reading all of your precious posts, I became ashamed of such thoughts. Especially when I read that Roman has a secret question for these women by which he can be absolutely sure that they are telling the truth. That finally convinced me. And when I found out how Swami stole the knowledge of yoga from some other yogi, his fellow brother, and how whole Param Para is complete invention by an uncle and his nephew, which you so meticulously revealed, in finest details, with such strong evidence (not to talk about the money), I couldn't stay indifferent any more.

    That's why I want now to express my deepest admiration for all of you. I have never ever met a group of such extraordinary people in my whole life. I have never seen or even heard of people who know and understand so deeply what the truth is and what is just a smear lie. To witness such an elevation of, till some time ago, just ordinary souls who can now completely discern and know with utmost certitude who is telling a lie and who is telling the truth – for me it is the most wonderful inspiration I could only pray for.

    To see this fierce dedication to inform everyone about false guru, even gurus, this gentle care for every human being who could fall or is fallen into this dark trap of "Master-disciple relationship" – I must thank you from the bottom of my heart.
    When I see how grounded all of you are, how well you understand not just yourselves and your conscious and unconscious motifs and triggers (probably you stopped bothering about that long time ago, lucky you), but also other people (how many good advices were given here, you should think maybe of charging for that – I'm just kidding, I know that you are very unselfish about your hard-won knowledge) – I must humbly admit that I still have a lot to learn. I learned a lot from you, especially about emotions and feelings: I always thought (actually – a lot of people told me, I have never thought about that properly) that my emotions are showing me something about myself, and that they can lead toward my own wounds, convictions, fears etc., helping to understand myself a little bit better. Now I see that it wasn't that simple: my emotions also tell me even more about others, about the "outer world". For you, it so simple – and for me it is maybe the biggest revelation I had. I can finally stop blaming myself and trying to find the reasons for everything inside me. This is huge.

    One could jump to the conclusion that you had a great Master, when sees how accomplished you are… But, luckily, you found your own center, you are balanced in such a way that you just know what is right and what is wrong (you don't have even to bother with that no more, you fortunate ones) and you are willing to fight (not some other people's battles, as many wrongly do) in non-aggressive and non-violent way, with deepest respect toward anyone who disagrees with you, without any prejudices (and certainly without any pride) to finally show the world the real and only truth, the one you realized.
    I could go on like this – enumerating all of your qualities (at least those I can see) – but, I think it would be too long to read, probably even frustrating for most of the yidl disciples (and I certainly don't want to tease your ego, but probably I couldn't do that any more even if I wanted to), so to conclude – thank you for your huge efforts and for the inspiration you provided. This is just wonderful – you are no sheep any more! I can only hope that this Guru, or any other, in fact, will learn something from this painful but obviously necessary lesson you gave him. Well done!

    God speed!

    PS. Batawe, thank you for your amusing interpretations of Lacan. It is so good to laugh, even amidst horrible news. I really love this little play of yours – not to mention him but to almost impersonalize him. If I didn't know he is dead, I would think he spoke to us.
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @lanterna: Hopefully from this painful lesson the Guru will learn at least that even secret sleeping with girls is really forbidden if he wants to claim himself to be a sannyasi :))
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @lanterna: welcome to the club :-) But I don't think I'm so extraordinary, I'm just trying to find the truth, how difficult that may be. I think there are hundreds of millions of people like us in the world, not everybody is a sheep. We only happened to be in a cult called YIDL, some more than others, and that's what binds us.
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @truthseeker: After reading lanterna's post twice still I'm not sure if it is all meant seriously or ironicly :))
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @SunYaC: I see what you mean. This post is very ambiguous, he's just flattering too much. Lanterna, are you serious, or are you just joking with us? If so, very intelligently done. But come on, this is a serious subject, joking is not forbidden, but a bit of sincerity would be appropriate.
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @lanterna: Maybe it is better not to believe everything immediately. I am not sure about every testimonies (but i must confess that someone look very credibly) and i think that argument with relationship doesnt mean that parampara was created by XXXXX. It is logical that independent info about parampara is not on internet...it is question of trust, i believe and i am sure that other need not believe. That is all...Consensus here is just about this, that we shouldnot be like sheep without own opinion, and believe everything what yidl says..
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @lanterna:
    :-)))))))))))))))))))))
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @member: I see you are smilling, can I conclude that you like lanterna's cynicism? It looks like you are just as violent or non-violent as we are, you are not a better person than us. I certainly don't consider myself a better person than you, and that's the whole point: no one is intrinsically better than the other, also not the one who calls himself Guru. Do you agree or disagree on that?
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @truthseeker:
    smile is just a smile, nothing more or less ...he put smile on my face, simple as that
    I am as you are, and you are as I am, we have similar emotions, just it is point of control, that is it, you got it :-)
    I disagree about guru.
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @member: do you go as far as as saying that the guru is God in the flesh and so is an absolutely perfect, omniscient being who radiates pure love, and thus can not make mistakes?
    And does that apply to your master?

    Can you see that's purely believe? Believing is not the same as knowing. We can never be sure of anything, but there's one thing we can do: use our mind for the best and try to distinguish what's true and what's false. It's our responsibility as a human being. So I will repeat what others have said: try to open yourself to the idea that the accusations are true. Don't think you are sure they are not, because 'your intuition tells you' or something. That's what some people claim, I'm not saying you are doing that.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @truthseeker:
    it is simple...don't ask of me what you are not willing to do- if you will stay open to possibility that those stories are not truth, than you can ask me to stay open to your side of the coin Are you willing to do that?
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @member: I'm willing to do that. But I'm just as sure that I'm right as you are sure that you are right. How come you don't see what I see? Just two small examples: should a sannyasi own a big, luxurious house in a posh neigbourhood in the city? And should a sannyasi be surrounded by young women all the time?
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    Lanterna's disgusting cynicism only reflects that something isn't right with YIDL. It is in conflict with just everything swAmi is publicly proclaiming. but it is quite in accordance with what is really happening and with what YIDL really is. As a non spiritual and non religious person I reserve the right to be a little bit deviated. But followers of perfect guru shouldn't act in ways some of swAmi's devotees are acting on forum ;-)
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @Ivan:
    oh but really...disgusting cynicism....
    Something isn't right with yidl because members have human qualities? - you know better than that, you have more inteligence - you know as all the others, to be on spiritual path doesn't mean that you are already saint, so human behavior is still acceptable, together with cynicism :-)
    we are trying to be perfect , but still we are not :-)
    also to be spiritual doesn't mean that you should be smiling puppet without character or brain
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @member: I am not sure if testaments are true-but i see as a big problem with yidl doctrine: total suppression of critical thinking-it is very dangerous. The source of this is in older holy books, which was written by brahmin cast. They needed total control of "lower casts" and therefore they creatively wrote some holy books. Believe in Guru, dont thing negative, Guru is more than God-how many gurus are there now and how many of them are living Gods? Jesus says i am messenger, but "we know who" sit on piedestal as a living God and let his sadhakas bow down and proclaim that "we know who" dont make mistakes...because he is like living God..... please, use your own brain-my own opinion is, that "we know who" can change it and come back as he was before-humble mesenger.....but photos from kumbhamela says somethig else....Maharaja with yellow army, no humbleness-what a pitty
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