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sex abuse scandal, Part II
  • admin May 2011
    Posts: 61
    Please, continue the discussion here, the original was getting too difficult to navigate.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    First answer to our dear Ivan:
    yes dear, we are all trolls and you don’t need to speak with us, i don’t care less about your opinion (this I would never say, I am using your words from one of the posts), but if I said argument about not believing testimonies because I find 2 lies (and not even searching or making any investigation, just random reading)…this is, my dear, argument in conversation and I think that forum is all about-discussion or???
    if you say to others in this forum just to ignore everybody else who are not on “your path of thinking”- what are you saying to people?…I think the same thing that you are accusing swAmi of…you are trying to make sheep of them, you are trying to make zombies of them my dear…just the other side of the coin…how Roman put the name of this forum – which name, by the way give me some hope that this forum will not be as all other forums…just throwing some mud on each other
    but I can understand your bitterness my dear Ivan…to make money with teaching Sanskrit and Indian philosophy and to be such hard atheist is bad karma or on atheistic language - destiny blow.

    to “mother”: I don’t doubt that your daughter think that this is reality what she tells, this is the main point, to her it is reality, speak with any psychologist , he/ she will tell you that this is possibility.

    to pavitra: yes I am counting, because you can easily misguide people with terms like “YIDL Serbia don’t exist any more” or several, or mayority..stick with the truth if you are “truth worriers” and saying that to you all what is important to finally tell the truth. so….
    you are calling swAmi liar with some argument which year it is written in some almanac that he came for the first time to Europe, and is he 7 years older or younger and all the other blim blam from our dear Ivan… And you are using counting arguments also, don’t you? Again…OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, you are doing the same
    pavitra’s words” You can imagine a "yogi" using the argument of quantity? They are desperate.” Are you desperate when you cutting all information about chronology of His life like on some weird autopsy?
    And yes, I can imagine yogi using the argument of quantity. Quantity was always argument when you are describing some events or anything.

    to falseswamiji: You are saying that you are doing all this only because you want to help to abused girls. And I believe you. You know their stories for so long, why didn’t you help them earlier? If abuse makes you so angry-then why are you not active in some organization against abuse? I think in your country (as in any country unfortunately) there are many abused girls and children. I mean, if it is your only reason to do this and if you have such impulse in you, you should utilize it. For now, you were just utilizing it for fighting against Gurus…

    But still…to all: I respect your decision of leaving YIDL, that is Ok with me, but I don’t respect your „mission“ of destroying YIDL in all (together with your former brothers and sisters, who are in your words still to weak to leave Him, or in my language faithful disciples). But, as I am believer, it is all God’s play and I know it will be as it should be.

    God bless us all
    Iam
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji May 2011
    Posts: 255
    reply to Iam

    you say :"to falseswamiji: You are saying that you are doing all this only because you want to help to abused girls. And I believe you. You know their stories for so long, why didn’t you help them earlier? If abuse makes you so angry-then why are you not active in some organization against abuse? I think in your country (as in any country unfortunately) there are many abused girls and children. I mean, if it is your only reason to do this and if you have such impulse in you, you should utilize it. For now, you were just utilizing it for fighting against Gurus…"

    I found out for this in 2009 , from one . I was shocked! I haven't had the faintest idea before that swami could be such a monster.
    I knew it was truth cause I was told in confidence and deep intimacy from a very close friend. And still i could not believe..and i believed..and i couldn't believe..and i felt like going to swami and...better not to say what to do to him. Yes, i was angry, more than angry to see what a deceiver he was.
    But she didn't want me to talk about it around , to investigate further, cause she herself - had tried to do it , to talk about itbefore but she was roughly pushed back and rejected and claimed crazy- just the same as it happens now to some of them that try to reveal things publicly.
    So i knew for the abuse in her case and i knew that there were many others having sex with swami but those were not having problem with that- they were kind of proud to be selected by their God. She was also aware of the fact that most of the women she knew that had sex or still have sex with swami were pleased to be his gopi slaves and she knew that back then when she was trying to reveal the truth they decisively claimed that they will lie to protect swami - they knew she was speaking the truth cause they were together in those situations. But obviously they liked it.
    That's why she was just trying to forget it all and to live her life without going back to past.
    In 2009 i tried to google it , with his name and sex in the search options , but i found nothing. Elisabeth has made her site in April 2010, and it was almost a year after i found out, and already i stopped searching and thinking about it and i was not aware that it had such huge dimensions and so much really abused devotees.
    And my friend didn't want to go on with it so i didn't think about it. I told to some friends in Y__L that i know the truth that is not nice, but they just didn't want to believe so i didn't push them no more. But it was always on my mind.

    I told it to a friend, later I found out she was a friend of Isva Puri too , (i didn't know isva puri till mart 2011. ),

    In april 2010 when i told her -she laughed at me, cause she had no idea , but in September 2010 she suddenly called me and told me i was right, and that she had very reliable informations of many abuses from a friend that was for a long time in Y--L.

    I tried to find informations on the internet but it was just full of nithyananda and saibabas sexual scandals..i found just on one forum.hr a topic of a person who asked about swami and Y__Life if he was a true master and what do forum members know about it- so i replied what i knew.
    Few weeks later i got PM from another member and we started mail communication, as he was worried since his fionce was in YI__life.

    2 months later or so, i don't know exact dates this moment right now as i'm writing this letter , but i can check it all later- he told me for the falseguru site from Elisabeth that he had found it on the web as he was searching a lot to find more information.
    So elisabeth and i got in contact.
    Her story was weak, i mean her reasons for leaving y___life were OK but she was not really abused, she just had too high expectations, and was wakening up from a cult hypnosis but from a different point and in much less frustrating way.
    But she had put me in contact with devotee 1, and then it all started. I connected dev1 and dev 2. Then Elisabeth said why don't we make a site like she did- so i started to make a site on googlesites as she did.
    So we made a first page- like info page with no testimonies.
    Then i suggested to dev 1 and dev2 to write testimonies and to record audio too if they want.
    Then slowly other devotees came in contact with us, but some were not ready to give statements.
    Now we have 6 written statements,

    6 true persons witnessing their experience.

    I didn't know who is chidanand before- at all, since i was not an active member of yi_l but more of a fan, sympathizer- most of us had no idea that he was resigning , and we found that out -after we had made our site, with testimonies - of course it was a good sign for us, and it helped us to get devotee 4 and devotee 5 to join , and other y.._ devotees to become ex. and to spread the truth.

    It is not anymore just a question of sex abuse or just having or not having sex with devotees- it is about the truth and that he is lying and looks like y--l is collapsing as a tower of cards in many ways- it is not just swami but also his guru that abused his power.

    I am very very sorry , i really liked swami - in a way i fell under this cult hypnosis too, meditated, listened to his yog-nidra almost everyday for years, listened to his mp3 lectures, i was going to his seminars, alone or with my wife and little daughter..., i have lost some very dear friends because of this process but also i have gained many more beautiful friends too.
  • mangal May 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @falseswamiji: For me it sounds credibly. The reality can be-first:you are very good in doing fairytale Second-it is true.....Maybe suppreme courage of that ladies (if they will be ready for such hard step) can solve this dilema...but as a men i cannot ask them for revelation of their anonymity, but i pray for it....
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    For me it came as a complete choc. After all the process described above was in place I was copied in in an e-mail from a close friend answering to the YIDL Country Presidency as she was attacked by them because she put on her facebook the link to the false guru website and also sent some additional information to YIDL members as she knew the story of one of the abused girls first hand. They are both my close friends. I didn't have the choice to believe or not believe as I know them for so many years and they are absolutely mentally and phisically healthy. I knew about the "special relation" between my little sister and swAmi as well as a second girl (one of the happy gopies described above), about the special calls to come to his room during seminars and to his place in Vienna. I have always been jalous but I was thinking that this special bond was due to the fact that they were both so young when they started to practice yoga and that swAmi felt a higher responsability towards them and also of course that they were probably spiritually more evolved than myself.
    Some years ago the same friend started to tell me that she was sexually abused but I didn't let her tell more. I was thinking in the "yogic" manner. We all have our histories and burdens but you can't change the past so is better to focus on the present that will shape your future.
    As I said my world suddenly collapsed and I was so disgusted and angry and disappointed that I just decided YIDL and swAmi GO TO HELL! For some days I couldn't stop crying. I was really thinking now the YIDL systhem will now collapsed. After the very strong emotions calmed down I finally realized that if it was so terrible for me, how was feeling my friend? I met her (the abused devotee) and spent many hours with her and I realized this aboslutely (for me of course) unreal situation of people not believing them and the YIDL struggles to deny everything inventing some conspirancy stories, blackmailing them etc. She is still very scared. I think that is my duty to try to defend her as much as I can telling the simple thruth, believe you it or not.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @pavitra: Pavitra kee jay :)
  • someonefromcroatia May 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @pavitra:

    Pavitra, If the girl is scared and receives any threats either in person or by phone or anonymously through the net it is your duty(I repeat duty) to inform the police. Even if you think it is not that serious for the life of a person.

    I spent some time in an office with an ex police inspector, and he told me it is the right way to do in such situations. That means that you are assured that if anybody actually does harass somebody, you have some legal backing that you did the right thing, that you informed. And police have something to start off.

    Nobody can threaten the girls even if they made up the stories (which I am positively sure they did not). Then even if the guru is free by all accounts, still these threats make him and his organization guilty by whatever it is legally called (threatening and not preventing threats even when he/them could).
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    Hi someonefromcroatia. The girls received the right information from the right people now. The problem is that they can't give them police protection at this stage. I hope the whole process will go on enough quickly but as you can see on this forum the emotions are high and you have many people that are blindely acting without thinking. swAmi is calling people connected to the victims that have EVER NEVER spoke to him directly before. Some of them are just laughing at this manipulation attempts but on some is working well. I absolutely understand people that can not believe and I respect their opinion. But is only an opinion. I also think that we don't need to convince each other but I find so helpful that we are discussing and sharing our experiences so openly. I think that this kind of discussions will also help the people that will decide to stay in YIDL to be more open. And just to finish I don't think that YIDL must disappear or close down. Yoga is beautiful and beneficial and I really hope that all these very good yoga teachers and people will continue to learn and practice. But swAmi needs to come clean and take the responability for what he did. In one satsang I remember very well that he said "Never look at the others as the guilty ones. You are the guilty one. Even if a snake is suffocating you around your neck - you are the guilty one because you have a neck." And you obviousely understood that I wasn't thinking of his neck right now.
  • someonefromcroatia May 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @pavitra:

    Nice to hear that they are being taken care of.

    Of course yoga is nice, and yoga exercises are nice, and people should continue if they feel inspired. In which form that is up to them. Everybody is free to choose.

    But feeling good in yoga, does not mean we should close the eyes to the obvious. And you do know that.

    After ahimsa comes satyam. Ahimsa is first. And it means mental ahimsa also. So why would anybody threaten anybody? Truth has to be find out calmly, if possible.

    But then again, even though these principles are good, sometimes they lose in real life, because I presume you can practice humility with somebody that is humble to you also, but otherwise it is landing hand to abuse. So it is good that people woke up. And that they speak up for justice and truth.
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @someonefromcroatia: Being too servile can "land hand to abuse", well said. I agree. We should learn to immediately react to abuse and say NO! It is in a way also ahimsa, when you don't allow others to be violent with you (in any way, be it verbal, mental, emotional or physical). And I belive it is a natural thing to react to protect oneself. So maybe, people who do not belive the testimonies or attack the anonimous girls and us who speak in their favour, are just acting so to protect their inner beliefs. When they identify themselves so strongly with their guru, instead of being self-identified, deeply rooted in their own self, they just feel threatened from facts unacceptible to their image of him/themselves and take that as an offence or feel attacked. Otherwise I can not find explanation for this huge fenomenon in y__l.
    And this is exactly the opposite from what yoga is teaching - "Be thyself. Know thyself." - doesn't mean identify yourself with somebody else or let somebody else think for you.
    Maybe it would be wise, if all just took some time alone, with their feelings, even if they are unpleasant and hurtful, and let this flow for a while. Feel it... Try not to attack or react. Just feel it! What do you feel? Let this resonate in you. Find out, what this means to you, what is it that you actually feel.
    Don't silence the feelings just because someone told you, that this are vrittis ment to disturb you... Try to be honest with yourself. There is no god nor real genuine guru who will judge you for doing that!
    Guru should be there to answer your questions. He is the one who should first be respectful of your feelings, doubts, fears, insecurities, boundaries... It is him who should serve as example of humanness, respect, acceptance, acknowledgement, whatever positive aspect of a human being you can think of. Do you find it really acceptible, that your guru invites young girls in his room in the middle of the night? Do you really think it is a special mercy of him, when he wants to have sex with you?
    I just received an e-mail yesterday from one girl who asked around people whom she knows from y__l, and many said they belive the testimonies but think of it as guru-lila, special mercy, blessing or whatsoever... And thus it is acceptible for them. Some even claim, they would be willing to die for their guru, that they are willing to do anything for him. Well, that sounds dangerous to me.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @joyriver: very nicely spoken, you are exactly right
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @joyriver: "Some even claim, they would be willing to die for their guru"

    This sounds really creepy to me , it reminds me of the collective suicide of the Peoples Temple cult In Guyana in 1978: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

    But I don't think something like that can happen in yidl. It is not that extreme kind of a cult, there are too many wonderful, sensible people in it for that to happen and swAmi is not a deranged person like Jim Jones.

    But I start to see more and more similarities between (fake) gurus and generals in the military, both demand total obedience and blocking out your own thoughts and conscience, just follow orders.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @truthseeker:
    yes :)
    and I hope very much that saying they would die for him is just the usual generous exaggeration of extreme love. which _can_ mean that they would heroically risk and sacrifice their lives under certain special circumstances to actually save his life... for example, during an accident or something similar... much as a parent, a husband/wife/partner, a relative, a friend, or anyone else sometimes really does.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @someonefromhungary:
    let's assume that's what they mean. I think they do.
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @truthseeker: Grrrr, what more can be hidden now and what else will we still find out...? Seems like all gurus are fake. At least those who don't stay hidden in their caves in the Himalayas or in the jungle. Hopefully some genuine ones do really exist???
  • Tony May 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @joyriver: Hopefully, they are not required. You are not fake, to you.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @joyriver: They exist, but they are just not so famous :) Because this is one of the qualities of real sadhus - they don't want wordly fame, engagements in world tours, world conferences, meetings with presidents, and so on.. ;) And the other thing is they engage exclusively in spiritual matters which is not too popular in this world today - therefore almost nobody knows them :)) But one can find genuine guru if he really tries. Where there's a will there's a way.

    But the guru has to be examined first before one accepts him. According to the Vedas, there are several signs by which one can recognize that guru is genuine. I wrote about it already elsewhere on the forum, but shortly:

    1. The guru must come in one of the disciplic succesions mentioned and authorized by the Vedas.
    2. He has to teach exactly what his own guru teaches.
    3. In his teachings he mustn't even slightly deviate from the Vedic scriptures. He musn't neither add nor cut out anything.
    4. He mustn't deviate from what other genuine gurus teach.

    These points ensure that the message the guru passes down to his disciples is not adulterated nor changed and that he teaches the konwledge of the Vedas as it is. It's called the safety policy of "guru-sadhu-sastra". All these three must be in agreement.)

    5. And another very important point is that genuine guru lives himself consistently according to his teachings. He must be personification of his teachings. Living example. (Not that he teaches his disciples hatha yoga but he himself "doesn't need to do the exercises anymore", like the swAmi in YIDL :)) No. The genuine guru teaches by his own example in all respects (even if he wouldn't need to do those things for himself).

    When the spiritual teacher doesn't meet these points, then according to the Vedas he's not considered to be genuine guru and must be rejected.

    I'm sorry to those who already read my previous posts about this topic for repeating myself...
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    Turns out the "investigation" in Australia was an "open" investigation, meaning they left it open for people to contact them, if they had a problem or complaint in the past for any reason. My sources inform me that no effort was made to contact all 6 victims? One phone conversation with Victim 1 was enough, apparently. More statements will follow soon, but it doesn't look good for the swAmi at all.
    To falseswamiji: Could you tell us if Australia officials tried to get in contact with all victims?
    Also to falseswamiji: Has Vienna tried to contact victims and offered a sympathetic ear? If Australia can have an "open" investigation, then Europe should do the same! At least they should leave the door open for complaints and assure people that they will be spoken to in a polite manner and listened to.
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    To the victims and their friends and families: If victims are too scared for Youtube Video Statement, then how about having a Yoga Friend or Family Member giving a Video Statement? I'm thinking of Meera. Could your Yoga friend, the one who contacted you and asked you to reveal why you left so long ago, could he make a 1 minute Video using his webcam and then upload it on Youtube? At least other people will see it's not just all BS, it'll do a lot to convince people.
  • SatyaKali_Deva May 2011
    Posts: 6
    Hari Om

    Chitananda is a cheat he has created this whole campaign due to his greed for money and power> After he did not get Mahamandelswara initiation in Haridwar sometime after this XXXXX cancelled the whole Vishwa Deep Guru Video team and all rights thereto. This was Chitanandas only source of income and when he lost this he had no further way of generating any income. He could not handle his long held sexual desires and longings as he is sex addict> i can confirm this i was originally paid money over 10 years ago by the "So Called Swami"for sexual intercourse. After this i fell in love with him and we had a long and secret relationship togeather. He recently refused to see me anymore as he fell in love with another. I therefore after long and careful consideration can NOT hold my silence anymore i will reveal ALL.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @SatyaKali_Deva: this is a sad story and I can understand you bear a grudge against Chidanand. It's hypocrite when someone claims to be a celibate while in reality he has a secret relationship and at the same time is married (without the physical part of marriage). I'm not a supporter of Chidanand (nor does he support me or anyone else on this forum, as far as I know), so if he has hurt people and has been dishonest, it's good that these things are revealed by the ones he has done wrong, like you. For me your revelation is an extra indication that a lot is wrong with yidl. How many of the (ex-)swAmis really live/lived celibate? All is not that it seems.

    Personally I now think that longlasting forced celibacy is unnatural and unhealthy, with a few exceptions maybe for some people. It's destined to fail, for it is too strong an urge. I think that most supposedly celibate gurus, swAmis and monks have a secret love/sex life. It can be that they have a steady partner or that they have sex with several people. If they have a steady partner, why can't they just be honest and stop hiding that they love this person? It's very hurtful to the lover of the swAmi too, that he or she doesn't want to bring out in the open that you are his or her partner. There's nothing wrong with having a partner, on the contrary, but hiding it is wrong!

    Having gone through all this and then to be dumped by Chidanand for another woman, I can understand you can't hold silent anymore. You are welcome to reveal more. But Chidanand having done wrong, doesn't mean that yidl is okay. I don't believe a bit in the conspiracy theory that everything is a smear campaign instigated by Chidanand. We have a heard enough of all that is wrong with yidl, not only the testimonies of the six devotees. Yidl is clearly an organisation with a rotten core. This whole ideology, that someone can be 'higher' than other people and should be worshipped, is wrong anyway.

    Maybe one comforting thought for you, SatyaKali_Deva: if Chidanand cheated on both his wife and on yidl, it's maybe better that he didn't marry you.
    How could you ever trust him when you know he cheated on them? Big chance he would have cheated on you too if he would have married you.
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @SatyaKali_Deva:

    You are making quite serious accusations.

    First:
    Nothing what happened between you and Chidanand does not change anything on what was done to those women by swAmi.

    Second:
    If I look at what you are saying, it looks like prostitution (taking money for sex), regardless what the circumstances were. I don’t know laws at your country but I know that that is illegal here in the US. The way courts handle it here is, that they will give immunity to the prostitute (women or man) in order to get the “John” (customer paying for sexual services = soliciting prostitution) and this way to help the “abused ones”. That would have been the first encounter(s). What had followed after that looks like an extramarital affair. These kinds of things are not right but they happen. The fact that he was a swami/celibate monk is more important for people of yidl than anybody else.

    Nobody on your side believes any of those six women. Why should we believe just one of you, especially after your over-exalted entry? I’ll tell you what. First calm down. Then write things down in a coherent manner and send it to me or post it here (just once is enough or I will ban you from this forum. You are violating our rules by multiple posts of one thing). If you don’t want to reveal your name nobody will force you to do it. I will post it the same way as I did any other statements. People will comment on it and you will go through the same rollercoaster as the other women did. But first thing is to calm down. I have to tell you that the way you act does not help your credibility (that’s a friendly advice :)

    Take care for now,

    Roman
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    Dear SatyaKali_Deva....please, have you got a webcam? A short 1 minute video would do. Upload onto youtube and send us the link. All you have to do is create a gmail account, (I think, from memory), it's real easy. Upload your short video so we can hear what you have to say.
    It goes for both camps: The "SW is innocent" camp, and the "SW is guilty" camp. Record a video message...my God, these days it's soooo easy. Admit it: "I had Sex with Sw"....or "I had Sex with Ch"...or "I had Sex with Harh"....Or: "I had Sex with myself..." ha ha ha...go for it...what are you waiting for. Or, in my case: "I have no Sex". . . oh, God!
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    John Sceptic,

    To say to camera I had sex or I hadnt sex to yoga fanatics will not change anything or make anybody believe and this is not very efficient suggestion to solve any question. There are many people involved in organisation KNOWing about at least of sex, practiced by guru (if not about abusive sex), but they put to the first place their unconditional love to their guru, to the benefits of the organisation and the positive projects and they are angry about those unworthy silly gopies that dared to speak about their unimportant and unneccesary personal traumas, putting themselves against to magnificant work that was done by guru.


    It is not just blind anonymus allegations: there are 3 names well known and not anonymus anymore at least in yoga circles: No 1, No5 and No6. All 3 they give quite clear picture of kind of abuse from 3 different sides, 3 different environments, 3 different countries. There are the circumstances that doesnt allow one to take it easy. No one of 3 has no real reason why to invent such a story.

    No 2, 3 and 4 they have personal reasons not to come out from their anonimity as this could impact their present existential situation, but they told they would testimony and reveal their identity to any competent authority that is obliged to keep their identityn hidden. The conditions from 1, 5 and 6 are similar to 2, 3 and 4.

    Besides here we have very strong personalities that were building, introducing and expanding YIDL as Roman, Tony, Chidanand and others. It is just to easy to say why they silently resigned all in a sudden - they fall in love, they were jelaus, they got fed up... Even they now have something to say and this fits to the picture too. With all other facts that came out- guru being adopted at 50ties for property, not kicking out his swami after being cought by police downloading pedofilic pornography, giving another swami higher position despite sex affairs with his students .... For me this is more than enough of facts not to trust to such an organisation and such a guru, despites all good works and projects.
  • pandora May 2011
    Posts: 10
    i also think it's strange that certain people resigned all of a sudden, like they spat poison and then went ingognito, where is Chidanand now? why isn't he able to answer for himself, also the australians had a lot to say and now they say nothing, if you send them emails, some of them have an auto reply that they are not able to respond to communications, it's not a realistic way of handling anything, i mean if we are really dealing with something here why aren't the people who are making the acccusations deal with it??? they are not. now if you are saying something and it's true, surely the conviction behind that would be to follow it til the end, but it just seems like a power play because that is not happening, it's just a play for power, so we shoudl deal with that issue? the people who have left/are leaving never got a high position.
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    Here we have a question for Roman, why you dissapeared so silently, like you spat poison and went incognito?
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @karavan:
    I can speak just for myself. I’ve explained it many times in the discussion on this forum and in my open letter. At the time I was leaving, nobody would really listen to me. I did all I could to arrange things for people I loved (my students of Yidl, I don’t speak about my after swamihood relationship) that they would not get hurt. Most of those people I’ve lost as friends (from their side, I still remember each and every of them in all good). I can tell you one think. If I had any information as I have now or if some of those people who I brought into this cult told me that they had experienced something similar as the paramliar site women did, there would be no Yidl in USA today. At that time I had access to all sensitive financial and other information. You have probably gotten to know me a little bit by now. The whole place would go down in a hell basket and probably some people would have been spared of all this. One thing still wakes me up at night. If any of those students I’ve brought to swAmi had to go through his sexual games. I don’t know. So far it looks, that it is Europe (especially Eastern Europe) based. But I can fully understand how Cici feels. I don’t have to agree with him but I certainly can understand. Nobody is perfect, especially those who claim they are perfect. All the devotees who left found themselves to be in very empty lonely place for a while. They had to recuperate, find new strength and recover to go on with their normal life. And that was/is the most important thing for their future. Don’t blame them. Don’t blame yourselves. Blame “the one we don’t speak of”.

    Poison? C'mon, just listen who is spitting...
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji May 2011
    Posts: 255
    "To falseswamiji: Could you tell us if Australia officials tried to get in contact with all victims?
    Also to falseswamiji: Has Vienna tried to contact victims and offered a sympathetic ear? If Australia can have an "open" investigation, then Europe should do the same! At least they should leave the door open for complaints and assure people that they will be spoken to in a polite manner and listened to."

    NO contact was made with victims as far as I know ( maybe they contacted dev 1 independently since she is almost public, not anonymous) . At least no one contacted me and I reply to falseswamiji@gmail.com mail.
    To kali: I clearly doubt in your story, and i can for sure deny that chidanand would be behind the abuse site, and i can again confirm that victims are true and there's no one but them and myself behind this site..
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    I found a website on the internet that criticizes Siddha Yoga, an organisation started by swami Muktananda: http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/index.htm

    Daniel Shaw, a psychoanalyst and former member wrote a paper about abuse in cults: "Traumatic abuse in cults - a psychoanalytic perspective" http://www.danielshawlcsw.com/traumabusecults.pdf

    It's interesting!
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    A very interesting article on the leavingsiddhayoga-website: http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/frames2.htm

    A small part of the article:

    "In a letter that the woman sent me not long ago, she urged me to view her experience, as she has, in a context of moral relativism. "The beautiful example that the (true) Siddhas give us, which always touches me so deeply, is their quality of non-judgment and total acceptance," she wrote, and added, "The Grace of a Guru like Baba is something very mysterious." Muktananda may well have considered his sexual encounters in a similar light, and his wish, however hypocritical, to conceal them from public view, and even from the majority of his own followers, may have been a matter of public relations. A good number of those I spoke with, though they were troubled by his double life, found spiritual explanations for his behavior. Few considered the time they had spent with Muktananda to have been mainly a destructive experience, or felt that his sexual activities negated the spiritual gifts he had given them. Some speculated that the sexual activity might be construed as goddess worship; others pointed to precedents in Yogic history where sainted masters flouted conventional mores because they themselves lived on a more esoteric plane. Two people suggested that Muktananda's alleged preference for very young women, whom he was said to have regularly chosen from a six-bed dormitory known as the Princess Dorm, bespoke a need to borrow "extra energy" from them after he had suffered three heart attacks."

    This article comes from the New Yorker, November 14, 1994.
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Devotees' testimonies:

Devotee #1

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Devotee #2

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Devotee #3

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Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz

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Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de

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Devotee #6

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Devotee #7

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