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fight club aka vampires vs. robots
  • Tony June 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @barnes: Thanks so much for your account of the situation in CR. I still cannot figure it out why this nation is so unbelievably obedient. If you go to the Czech forum, http://jogavdennimzivote.blogspot.com/ there is hardly any discussion happening there either.

    This forum's statistics confirm what you are saying, there are surprisingly few hits from that country, and just next to nothing from Slovakia. You know, under the bolsheviks, people would secretly do the exact opposite of what they were told by the regime. This is serious.

    But you are right about clinging to faith. Dropping religion has been the most difficult, but also the most liberating transformation of my life. It takes a few years. The last step is the hardest, because it means you accept that you are going to die, and be completely annihilated after that, be no more. For me, the sequence in which I had dropped all my beliefs went as follows: swAmi, his gurus, Osho, all masters, God, reincarnation, anything supernatural, enlightenment.

    The last step was to forgive my mother for having done all this to me.

    As for hell, Stephen J. Gould has famously said that all of the history's more interesting characters will be your neighbours there. I definitely don't want to spend the eternity with the retards from Utah who come to knock on our door to save me.
  • barnes June 2011
    Posts: 9
    Reply to @Tony:
    Maybe we are an obedient nation, in some sense. Just have a look at our history, you hardly find much bravery there... But it can be seen also in the way, thay we are peaceful nation and don't like conflicts. It's not that bad.
    Also I have to note that I described the situation of one small town. I think e.g. in Prague the situation could be different.
    You mentioned Czech forum. Well, it's sad. But it doesn't really matter, if yidl members don't discuss on that forum - maybe it's too one-sided for them, ok. But I would expect real inner discussion in yidl - at satsangs, yidl web pages, facebook etc. But all I hear is silence, that's really horrible. It seems many people try to fortify themselves in their inner worlds and don't want to hear anything against, anything they call "negative". And I think it was always like this, not just now.

    Clinging to faith, heaven and hell...:
    If I start to criticise XXXX and yidl, I can only loose. Either he is true and I am wrong, so according to Gurugita I will suffer in hell till sun and moon exist :). Or I am true and he is wrong, so yes, maybe all I achieve is complete annihilation you are talking about. It's not good business at all, doesn't matter which way the algorithm goes :). So I can understand that many people now clings to their faith even if they feel that something doesn't fit. For some of us, truth and arguments has great value, but for others faith means more...
  • someonefromcroatia June 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @barnes and @tony:

    Come on! Has anyone not figured out the third version? Where have you lost your creative power?

    That is: SvAmi goes to hell for not standing up to the principles he himself proclaimed, and for allowing the mobbing of the women, and you Tony have to associate with him for an eternity, for your not wanting to hang out with the nice saver guys.

    Oops..

    :-)))
  • barnes June 2011
    Posts: 9
    Reply to @someonefromcroatia:
    :))

    This discussion reminds me one part of Red Dwarf series. Problem was: where do all the toasters and calculators come after they die? :)
    So good news for robots: if fact, there is still a chance to come into silicon heaven.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Heaven



    :))
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @Tony: About CR-i am not nationalist, but who is founder of this forum? -i know about 6 people from CR surely:) But maybe we likes write in english-in order to learn more language skills:)
  • Tony June 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @mangal: I can see you and the scattered others, don't worry ;-). And who wouldn't notice Peter?

    My point is that our numbers are disproportionately small. YIDL is practically mainstream in Prague, last summer I saw huge billborard ads by the highway, I'm told some elemntary schools use it for gym classes, etc. It may actually be the case, as Roman speculated, that it is so mainstream that it is actually not loss of faith that they worry about but rather loss of their livelihood. Too many people's lives are so deeply entangled in it, that they would not survive without it. Those include the countless now older women who I'm sure know everything about what we are talking about but, literally, cannot afford to say anything.

    I think Žižka and his spiritual mentor would not be pleased.
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    one more thing-i believe, that most of people here dont want to lure away yidl sheeps. Why? If they are hapy there, lets them be hapy. I have not problem, that someone practise yoga and bow down in front of oltar-i bow down in front of Mahaprabhuji photo-am i stupid?-maybe he was not God himself who know?-but for me it is incarnation of wise person :) I have problem with xxxs manipulations and with inner circle in yidl-i dont hate them-many of them i know and admire them for their human qualities, but their acting in this causa is very problematic and very cunning-there are a lot of girls having problem with xxx-and hard core yidl people just think-how to destroy this causa-savvy lawyers? attact girls by email? How to erase every mails from them? How to not to let people to read this? How to calm down this forum-of course with their silence:) maybe we slowly getting bored by their silence and the causa will fall under table:) And their life will float as before:) And hysterical girls will end in care of psychiatric..... XXX ki džaja:)
  • someonefromcroatia June 2011
    Posts: 23
    Like I said before, religion does give some comforts to people, as do the moral standards when applied. And they're interrelated and do belong to humanity. No "God" has copyright on it, and we mostly feel the difference of right from wrong from within ourselves.

    When somebody says "it is right" and you deeply feel it is not, and feel that he says it due to his weakness, you can know that you are on the correct track. As that is your inner conscience working.

    Set of beliefs are here to channel up faith through something. To give it certain structure. But when search becomes cult I'd advise backing up to security whatever its name might be.

    On the other hand if somebody is having positive outlook on life through faith why not keep it?

    I do not feel, it is black or white, take it or leave it deal, or whatever. Life is a rainbow. With all its quirks.

    :-)
  • Roman June 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @Tony and @mangal:
    This will give you some idea:

    ------------------------------------------------
    Countries (Top 25) - Full list

    Countries Pages Hits Bandwidth

    Croatia 23446 79238 342.78 MB
    Australia 21167 71622 235.71 MB
    Austria 18133 88426 228.29 MB
    Slovenia 16544 56331 220.17 MB
    Germany 14644 69990 159.41 MB
    Hungary 10309 62304 53.56 MB
    United States 9108 20729 140.68 MB
    New Zealand 7375 15790 64.47 MB
    Great Britain 7001 30313 76.15 MB
    Czech Republic 6817 28006 102.15 MB
    Netherlands 5642 11466 22.92 MB
    Canada 5590 15274 39.15 MB
    Republic of Serbia5185 27464 83.28 MB
    European country4245 7238 29.65 MB
    India 2295 8360 43.03 MB
    Japan 1862 2832 65.94 MB
    United Arab Em. 755 5185 10.76 MB
    Brazil 426 961 3.33 MB
    Spain 400 828 4.65 MB
    Bosnia-Herzeg. 302 1704 9.94 MB
    Slovak Republic 261 1690 6.92 MB
    Luxembourg 158 610 2.26 MB
    Ukraine 121 356 3.57 MB
    Russian Fed. 114 329 5.88 MB
    France 102 220 2.28 MB



    Others 719 2235 26.51 MB
    ---------------------------------------

    I think that what Tony is talking about should not be underestimated. In those countries (not just Czech Republic), where YIDL became part of the mainstream establishment, the big reason for defending the old status quo of ostriches is fear from loosing existential security, money, career, status, getting laid when I want etc. Then you have those who would like to climb up the YIDL ladder when some other people leave. Lot of that is going on in Australia, I think (it is just my opinion; tell me if I am wrong). Then you have people who have never been to close to the fire anyway and they just want their classes and seminars to continue. Then you have the true believers (there are not that many of those by now, I am pretty sure), kind of like those people knocking at Tony’s door. Wide open shiny eyes and cramped smiles. And then you have those, who were involved to some degree in all those sex things and they think that if they start questioning swAmi, they’ll be questioning themselves. This forum does not threat anybody; people are putting themselves in those situations.
    So I would like to plead to everybody, including swAmi:
    Don’t you see it? It is not about thorny intellectuals, scientists and disgruntled ex-swamis. It is about being true to your self. Real Self (You). Not to comfortable pacifier of high “spiritual” ideals without any correlation to your life and lives of others. If you think that those women are just crazies who should shut up, because whatever they did was wrong and it was their fault anyway, you are mocking yourself. Let’s end it the real and right way with decency. It is you who is driving this forum and makes it becoming conscious of this scandal. Not us. I beg you to think about it.
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @Roman: It is a little bit funny, that while Param-hansa slowly becomes Param-ostrich and his inner yidl circle use their desperate strategy with silent (dont write them-they will be desperate because of our silent..) a lot of people from whole world read this forum......especially Arabian emirates:) Maybe XXX is on holiday:)
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @mangal: and don't forget Luxembourg!
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    Reply to @Roman: OMG Croatia leading Australia for almost 108 MB :D
    I don't get it... Lot of free time? Lots of suspicions? Know your enemy strategies?
  • PallasAthene June 2011
    Posts: 246
    Reply to @Roman:

    In some countries must be a proxy serving the fire. :D

    Japan for example.
  • someonefromcroatia June 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @PallasAthene:

    You can use tor for anonymity, so to the server will each time log a different country. Google Tor and you will see. I doubt in Japan or UAE this is being read. Let say 90% of statistics is representative, as sometimes people use such anonymity networks.
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Very interesting is the believe of hard core yidl people (with 1-0 PCthinking-i believe- i dont believe, good- bad, xxx-hell)-Radh., Parva.., Gajana.., Shant. and co. , that when they will act as ostriches- the problem will be solved. Now is time of holidays, and therefore this forum will be weaker in trafic i suppose. It seems like last chance for them:) And maybe this beatiful world of their fairytales will be saved:)
    My question to them (they read this forum but their minds are switchet off-how?-program is simple :
    IF XXX then good
    IF XXX not good then XXX good and source of information is not good
    Other else conditions depends on first two:)
    Do you thing, my hard core PCminded friends, that behavior of ostrich is suitable response of adults people? I think, that your clever cunning plan (it is your maximum?) has mistake-it is childish.....Adult person is not ostrich-when there is some problem, adult person should try to disscus it and find better resolution. What you are doing is like child which broke the window and hide himself under cover-ostrich politics:) Maybe parents dont notice.....and everything will be as before...
  • seekingtruth June 2011
    Posts: 24
    @Roman
    and anyone who is believing in the so-called "freedoms" of living a healthy life in the West, particularly the USA:



    The EU has also recently passed anti-herbal remedies laws...

    @all
    Please try to think for yourself and not be fooled by propaganda from anyone, no matter how great or rich or happy or superior you think they are. Be true to your gentle inner humble kind human self and find the ways to enquire/question objectively, awaken wisely and forgive generously - yourself and others. Find the inner guide - the inner guru - and follow that inner voice of wisdom.

    We are all victims of our own beliefs until we wake up and see the bigger picture. They are constantly being reflected back to us by our environment, circumstances and companions. Of course the waking up is not necessarily instant and not always a comfortable process, physically, emotionally or intellectually. But spiritually - it is often a great relief.

    I encourage each of us to keep loving each other, even if we disagree or have a different point of view, so that we can find the ways to understanding and continue to move on in our lives. This is a process, our feelings and thoughts are constantly changing. Many are hurting - anger always comes from feeling hurt or neglected. But hurting others back does not fix our hurting heart - it just prolongs the feelings and transforms them into hate and/or shame.

    Let's stop creating the illusion of 'teams' or 'sides', black and white, good and bad, vampires and robots - let's try something different shall we? Wouldn't you like to leave behind the old ways and create a new way of being humans on this beautiful but fragile earth? So that we can enjoy life together and enjoy all this planet has to offer and stop all this inner and outer fighting...

    Many of you have 'broken free' from your dependency on the guru and the institution - are you ready to also break free from dependency of what your society/government/medical establishment/drug companies/oil companies/family/friends/peer group/television tells you is right, and really start to listen to and follow your inner calling? Without anger and without bitterness? With confidence, conviction and the willingness to risk some discomforts along the way...

    It's a moment by moment effort - but I'm sure we can all do it : ) If we really want to...

    peace
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @seekingtruth: so we have to embrace swAmi, never mind that he's abusing, controlling, manipulating and lying to people? Just let him carry on with what he's doing and draw a veil over it? I don't think so! Keeping the peace whatever the costs and allowing injustice to be done just isn't right, I'm sorry.

    There's a lot of unjustice in the world and I'm afraid that will never change. We just don't have the energy, time and power to fight all injustices, so we have to pick. And because we were in YiDL, this is a logic subject for us to pick. Perhaps we have all in a way, knowingly or unknowingly, been responsible for the abuses that were going on, we helped to create the atmosphere in which they could happen, and this is a way to atone for that.
  • Roman June 2011
    Posts: 347
    @seekingtruth:

    First off all: What is the correlation of your video clip to this forum? Please, enlighten me, because I did not get it even after reading your other paragraphs.

    Many of you have 'broken free' from your dependency on the guru and the institution - are you ready to also break free from dependency of what your society/government/medical establishment/drug companies/oil companies/family/friends/peer group/television tells you is right, and really start to listen to and follow your inner calling? Without anger and without bitterness? With confidence, conviction and the willingness to risk some discomforts along the way...
    It's a moment by moment effort - but I'm sure we can all do it : ) If we really want to...


    As far as I can say for myself, I am doing just that. There wouldn’t be “Roman’s forum” if I was listening what others told me. I did it after I’ve listen to my “inner calling”. Being fully aware and experiencing the risks and discomforts along the way. Giving others a channel, option to speak up. Is there sometimes anger? Oh yes, you bet. We are talking about real human beings. Is there bitterness? We are being accused of it but nobody here is really bitter. You haven’t experienced me bitter yet. Let’s hope it won’t come to it :)

    BTW: In one of you previous posts you’ve mentioned something about a seminar where you have experienced somebody threatening somebody else with a knife. You were trying to use it as evidence of some crazy people around us. Well, I was there too (unless it is happening frequently). Maybe you were there with me in our group. It is not important. What is important is this: “Have you ever asked the real hard questions about what happened there? Or you’ve just accepted the given explanation of some crazy people doing crazy things.” Things are not as simple as you may think. It does not happen that often that somebody would run with a knife in the middle of the night to threaten the yoga and meditation seminar leader in his sleep. There may be more to it. Or maybe not. But do not use these kinds of “facts” to support your theories.

    What do you think about @angela? Have you contacted her and tried to see if she is one of the witches of Salem inquisitors? Or you just settle with the propaganda version?
  • seekingtruth June 2011
    Posts: 24
    @Roman and @truthseeker

    You both seem to have misinterpreted my posts and perhaps presume I am of some fixed belief. The post above and previous ones are an attempt at seeing and sharing a 'bigger picture' - the wider context in which this drama is playing out. But not just within this particular system/family/institution of yoga, but some meaning in the broader context for each of us and our lives as a whole; and also the even larger context of our global society/ies of humans, and the planet itself.

    Joseph Campbell is someone with very wise and objective insights into the human psyche and the repeated patterns and mythologies we can tend to unconsciously live out. This extract is rather interesting:



    By the way it is a mistake to say that I have referred to any person or any act as "crazy" as I have not used that word or any similar word at all. I have merely given some examples of people in states of confusion. It is also a mistake to presume that the incidents I referred to or have also experienced, were yidl events. Group events of a 'spiritual', 'personal growth', or 'motivational' theme will always attract people who are confused in a wide variety of ways and to different degrees of sanity or insanity, by the very nature of their subject matter. My point was simply that it is not at all unusual as i have witnessed such things many times myself in differing and similar circumstances (I only gave a few examples).

    Like yourselves and everyone here reading and writing, I am enquiring and questioning and seeking truth. I have therefore contacted several of the people publicly involved already and continue to gradually enquire and gather information from various sources. I have decided that acting out of fear and desperation with rudeness and aggression only tends to cause more upset, offence and confusion, so am making enquiries calmly with some frequent pause for thought. But I do not stop at such truth which is just on the level of relations between individuals and other individuals, but am also enquiring - with greater motivation - into the relation between individuals and themselves, or you might say between individuals and God/Universe/Life.

    I would encourage all of us to do this, if we want to gain some positive outcome from this evolving play of circumstances and discussion, including (especially) those most directly involved/implicated, but really any of us who have taken an interest or feel affected.

    peace to all
  • Tony June 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @seekingtruth:

    I am really sorry to be so blunt, but what you wrote does not make any sense. The sentences are complete, your grammar is correct, it all feels as if it really is about something, and yet, it is strangely vacuous. You employ a lot of soaring, almost transcendental concepts, but what are you saying, really?

    One concept you seem to try to convey is that there are greater issues in life than sexual transgressions of some insignificant little guru, and one should not therefore get all worked up over something so trivial.

    I make a living by writing software. You do that one little line at a time. Every line of code is significant. More importantly, if you keep at it, and bring your friends along, you will soon have complex systems containing several millions lines of code.
  • Thank_You June 2011
    Posts: 32
    Poem of Freedom

    I am free to move forward

    I am free....... from the constant work and worry of demands, living at a computer desk day and night and with no place for myself to be,,, or to go,,, other than to work.

    I am free........ to have weekends off and not work late into the night every night.
    I am free........ to get an only 40 hour a week job that pays me with financial freedom and to take care of myself

    I am free........ to repair my long neglected teeth
    I am free.........to go for walks and smell the trees- not just once every 3 months

    I am free.........to save some money for my older age in the little time I have left to do so.

    I am free .......that even though I didn’t take the time to have children and no longer can , I can take the time to enjoy other peoples children.
    (Thank you in Advance, whoever you are)

    I am free ..........to be able to go sit and sip coffee, and relax (coming soon)
    I am free ..........to be able to associate with high calibre people not only yellow canaries

    I am free ..........to walk by the seaside and take the moment in with my eyes closed, feel the gentle breeze on my face and my breath in my body.

    I am free ..........to let the creative part of my being to live again,,,,,,,,and express itself
    (largest sigh of breath release, here)

    I am free to be Me..............................

    While this forum was not the source of my being able to verify the truth that I learned through trusted sources it helped me enormously with the process of my shock grief and pain and shortened the time to move forward
    I will be continuing to keep a close eye in here for the many tiny gems. Thankfully yours
  • Shivashakti June 2011
    Posts: 75
    Thank You, Thank YOU, I feel the same. I am FREE..
  • Thank_You June 2011
    Posts: 32
    Freedom = Freed OM
  • someonefromhungary June 2011
    Posts: 334
    :) :) :) :) :)
  • Tony June 2011
    Posts: 172
    Yes, during the first months just after one drops out, the sensation of unburdening is overwhelming. You have survived brainwashing. You are out. Suddenly, there no guilt, you are healthy again. This freedom, the intensity of it, came as a total shock to me.
  • Thank_You June 2011
    Posts: 32
    Free :-)
  • Thank_You June 2011
    Posts: 32
    I feel a kind of inner joy and light emerging
  • Thank_You June 2011
    Posts: 32
    I wanted to express my inner joy and freedom, is it possible to post a picture here?
  • VeritasVeritas June 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @Thank_You:

    <<IMG SRC="http://link to picture">
    ^remove this

    Example:

    (<)<IMG SRC="http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/09/images/02emperor350.jpg">
    ^(remove)

    Result:

    image
  • mammoth June 2011
    Posts: 17
    Reply to @Veritas:
    what darkness
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