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ARTICLE IN SLOVENIAN JANA MAGAZINE:

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CALL TO ALL OFFICIALS OF THE ORGANIZATION

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Don´t ignore not everybody believes
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @batawe:

    Each to his one ;)
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @baremuenze:
    which is, in fact, absolutely fine :)
    all we can speak "out" comes from our own individual internal dialologues (with ... )
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    I just don’t understand that still any really intelligent and unbiased person can believe that all the testimonies are just fabrications and those who are speaking out on behalf of those women are just disgruntled fakes. People know people, talk to people and hear things and then they discard them as junk which could pollute their shining mind. I am not forgetting that not everybody believes. If it’s all about just believe nothing really matters. We are hear talking more about simple reality check. Witnessing all this going on I fully understand decision of most of the involved women to keep their identity private. Those who don’t believe won’t give them even a speck of the benefit of the doubt. No, it’s not truth, no, it can’t be truth. swAmi gets all the benefit of the doubt because he so highly developed, he’s self realized and therefore he can’t do no wrong.
  • someonefromcroatia May 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @Roman:

    Don't worry. Any really unbiased and intelligent person will believe. Problem can come from expectation that all are unbiased, and obviously they are not.

    And guru, if he continues like that will lose credibility in the eyes of unbiased beholder, and that is the worst thing that can happen to him. Many sincere souls were following him. Some ostriches may even continue, but for how long?

    In my view, only sincere way out for him would be if he admitted, got married, apologized to women, did something to amend them and continue with some spirituality as a sadhak.
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @someonefromcroatia: Good point. I agree. What could amend at least some of the wrong he has done, is to apologize.
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @someonefromcroatia:

    "And guru, if he continues like that will lose credibility in the eyes of unbiased beholder, and that is the worst thing that can happen to him."

    - oh yes he should burst into shivers....- funny opinion....
  • someonefromcroatia May 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @baremuenze:

    I do not know what to tell you.

    I was told a few years ago, by a good friend, about a woman that supposedly was with swAmi in Hungary. I did not believe it then. Similar to you. Even though person that told me was fully normal and balanced, and I knew him for years.

    However after I read these testimonies I simply figured it out. It is true. Said but true.

    And what I meant is that if sincere people would not respect him then he would be left with cultist people, which believe me ultimately is not good for him.

    But whatever. He can go any direction he wants to.

    I am not in yidl so I do not care. Everybody leads his own life. However its disgusting to me. I had great respect for him. I do not have it any more.

    Would keep some respect for him if he came out with truth, and tried to amend it somehow. But I guess you people do not really help him with that.
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @someonefromcroatia:

    swAmi doesn´t need my help also not from others. How do you get this idea, that we want to help him?
  • someonefromcroatia May 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @baremuenze:

    Well I bet he would need a good advice. And that advice would be that he sticks to truth. :-) And unless you want to help him, what do you want to do here anyway?

    But while he has a surrounding that believes his every word, and is not critical, nor questioning, and a closer surrounding probably not really dedicated to truth (aside from lip service), it does really help him, nor anybody else for that matter.

    Have you heard about helping the needy one? Here the needy ones are the women actually.

    But the old guy could also do better if he decided to. Could stop this denial madness.
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @someonefromcroatia:


    Is he really in need to do anything?
    Till now there is no legal action against him - probably there won´t be in future...


    I just mentioned that I wanted to call attention, that not everybody believes some stories which are coming up. Therefore I opened an seperate thread which should be different to the "big thread" - I tried to explain some points of a nonbeliever convincing the stories. So if you like, just read my messages.

    I don´t know if the stories are true, but they seem to me made up stories. This is still my opinion. I tried to explain and I can only repeat my points.

    So I think there are a lot of needy ones - but no one was abused by swAmi.

    ...some disciples, which left for a while are already returning back and some new are joining us. Only God knows why swAmi doesn´t stop the "denial madness" --> maybe for benefit conscious or for spiritual evaluation, who knows.

    I reckon a lot of diciples bothered themselves with questions convincing unconditional love and unconditional trust for swAmi, who knows what´s the best for us and that we shouldn´t think and ask about his orders, because of our spiritual evaluation, even if we can´t understand them sometimes. So I reckon a lot of people asked themselves "If swAmi would ask for sexual services..."

    So, this question is in process to be answered now slow by slow, maybe not for everyone, but also not everyone stays with swAmi...
  • someonefromcroatia May 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @baremuenze:

    I read every post on this forum from the beginning, except from some long ones by batawe. So I already read what you had to say. And on that, I can say that here you are dealing with older, grown up people, not with 10 years or younger children that do not fully understand nor perceive reality, and tend to mix it up with their imagination.

    So in my opinion you are mixing apples an oranges.

    To digress. With children please pay more attention to percieve their emotions even through their maze, to understand their minds more fully, and to help them. They are more close to emotion than to intellect. Do not develop a wall around you, or you are better off for a different job. You have to be emphatic to help, and it hurts. So you are, and it hurt you, but please do not develop walls, but learn to deal with it.

    Thanks.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @baremuenze:
    dear baremuenze,

    some say there will be legal action too. or maybe there won't. as far as I am concerned, I would prefer there wasn't. I would prefer an internal procedure. a sincere and open internal discussion where everyone is presumed innocent, mentally sound, and a simple human being with equal rights. and some external help (various experts, mediators, advisors) could also be involved.

    you say that the testimonies do not seem true for you. which is an absolutely respectable position. you've read the testimonies, you come here and discuss it with us... you're absolutely fair.

    I wanted to speak with these women and one of them trusted me enough and took the time to contact me and speak with me. with another, who I know by the face, I exchanged letters. ultimately, I hope I can speak to and meet all of them...

    nevertheless, I also haven't decided yet whether to believe the most serious allegations, the testimonies -- and I also admit that it is a temporary "shelter" for me before a very hard decision.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    There are laws and legal precedens to refer in many countries regarding cults that encourages blind obedience, sexual transgressions and psychological brainwashing. Every country has also laws regarding charities and associations and organs to check the actual cash flow of such organisations.
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    @baremuenze

    Baremuenze, finally I’ve figured out the meaning of your user name. I admit that I had a little help. I have been out of German sprache for quite a while, so even I can still understand it pretty well (speaking takes much more time :), some nuances got lost in passing of time.

    Du kannst es (nicht) für bare Münze nehmen (You can or can not take things for certain).

    I actually like the version with both possibilities in one. You (or the saying) are totally right. Maybe both. Thank you for participating in the discussion :)

    Roman
  • SatyaKali_Deva May 2011
    Posts: 6
    Jaya Gurudev,
    In time you will all see the truth and the truth is simple one mans struggle for Power and money and fame has led to all this! His name is Chitanand (Hear the name CHEAT).
  • SatyaKali_Deva May 2011
    Posts: 6
    Due to inability to navigate and or control his ego and due to his GREED for FAME IE HE DID NOT get Mahamandaleswara award (Swami Jusraj got it instead) he has started and paid for this whole rumour mill! In fact most of the people on this chat talking crap about swAmi are no doubt financed by him> I KNOW THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP ME GOD AND I WILL GIVE YOU PART BY PART INSTALMENTS OF THIS DAY BY DAY STAND BY!
  • SatyaKali_Deva May 2011
    Posts: 6
    i REFER TO NONE OTHER THAN EX SWAMI CHITANAND (HE WAS NEVER A SWAMI ONLY A SNAKE IN ORANGE DISGUISE) HE FATE IS CLEARLY OUTLINED IN THE GURU GITA.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @SatyaKali_Deva: What power, money and fame can Citanand gain from all this? :)) Belief in this fairy tale is your unchallenged right. Sad to say it's just fabricated cover-up for keeping the sheep in their imaginary blissful ignorant sleep. The abused women are real and their testimonies have nothing to do with Citanand. It's you who hopefully will be able see the truth one day. I understand you very well, few years ago I would think and speak exactly the same.
  • mangal May 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @SatyaKali_Deva: I have no illusion about Chidanand, i think he has many problems with himself, and maybe he was jealous and so on, but now he is out. This conspiration theory, which fellowship spreads was first clue for me, that something is a bit different than they try to display us.....
  • pandora May 2011
    Posts: 10
    i really think it's poor conduct to attempt at bringing discredit to the whole organisation, just think about it, could you do anything like what has been done by swAmi and His organisations, that is massively positive work. amazing the fire of anger - how far it can go, like a bushfire, it just goes out of control. We are disagreeing here on some allegations and now the credibility of the fellowship, the people and many other projects gets involved - that is just too much. really. There are many amazing people part of YIDL, swAmi has some exceptional devotees, and they are also truly humble. i think we should consider all of that before having a go at the whole work of 50 years.
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    A meeting with all 6 women and swAmi would be good. With an independent party as witness/mediator. It wouldn't be my style to complain about sexual abuse and not put my name to it, I don't think it's right. On the other hand, I've tasted the stupidity of some people who are too quick to label people as crazy/schizophrenic/mentally disturbed. Have also heard that some people on this forum are unemployed and therefore idle, with too much time on their hands....hence....?? Well, the reasoning of this YIDL person was, or what she implied was, that idle unemployed people are too keen to gossip? To spread rumours? Dirt? Still not sure what her point was, really.
    Boy oh boy. I'm starting to understand why the ladies in question are still in hiding. But still. There are 6 now. So why still hide?
  • pandora May 2011
    Posts: 10
    Reply to @SunYaC: do you know yac is an animal.
    similar to how you speak and behave.
    your words are a bottomless pit
  • pandora May 2011
    Posts: 10
    Reply to @SunYaC: do you know yac is an animal.
    similar to how you speak and behave.
    your words are a bottomless pit
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    More ideas: YouTube: Mother, Victims, Friends, etc....got a webcam? Record 1min video...upload on YouTube. Too easy.
    Nr 2: How about making a website with real facts, rather than going on and on in a forum. Fish out the important bits and make a website, so people don't have to read 50 pages of junk before they get to good information. A website with easy navigation. Simple. I know the victim stories are here and easy to find, but what about all the other allegations posted here? Should be documented for easy reference, so people willing to investigate further can find the juicy bits in a flash.
    Also: Anyone out there know who the independent investigator in Australia was? The report on the findings should be published, how else will we know if it's true? Did they contact victims? Who talked to them? A qualified psychologist? A detective? A robot/zombie/or vampire? Where is the report? In the coffin?
  • Mother May 2011
    Posts: 14
    John Sceptic, there are so many reasons why being anonymus in such situation one could think of - even Roman, strong and mature Roman doesnt easy admit if he is asked that he had spent 15 years in a cult... but he can deal with it.

    I think these women from all sides of the world did quite enough to confess to themselves and to the others what happened to them. This was difficult enough. There are 2 that revealed their identity in YIDL circles and took the burden of preassure on their backs.

    If you read a book Stripping the gurus (www.strippingthegurus.com) and follow the link you find on falseguru site - http://sites.google.com/site/falseguru/, should understand about the process of getting in the cult and out of the cult and what are the traumas of broken trust and abuse of desciple by religious authority (http://www.freedomofmind.com). It is not uncommon situation, there are hospitals and specialists that deal with spiritual traumas.

    The worst solution is to be silent and polite and behave as nothing had happened, as it was suggested from YIDL international and swAmi himself down to every group and individual members.
  • mangal May 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @pandora: yes, yidl done a lot of good things, but....the way it goes now...politics-swAmi like maharaja sitting on tractor and crowd of yellow army with flags arround him...i am affraid that things slowly getting worse
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    Struggle for power? We are speaking here about sexual abuses. Can you explain better which power can someone get from this horrendous situation? The power of leaving yes, this is the power I got myself.
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    @John_Sceptic and in general:
    I agree with John about youtube video etc...don't know what is the plan of abused victims and are they prepared to come out or not etc...but that would be radical action...if you can back things up with your own person and are ready to publish it (I know it sounds easy but hard to do, because coming out as a victim is always somehow humiliating), it would still be a brave act and a necessary one, it would show the determination and readiness to speak...
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @batawe:
    Let's say that everybody, who is trying to convince "victims" about uploading videos, publishing their names and all that, should start posting under their real name (and not to complain to our hosting provider :) The only way to real honest discussion is to put money wher our mouth is. In this sense our "Australian real bhakta with one and only one name" was right.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @pandora: Dear Pandora, I'm afraid it's all a matter of your twisted optic.. :) First, YaC is not an animal (which is spelled "yak") and moreover, my nickname should mean something quite different - but it probably requires calm and independent mind to understand it ;)

    And second, as far as my words are concerned - I'm really sorry that I disturbed you, but I'm just speaking the truth. Unlike you, some time ago I have luckily already awakened into the truth and can see things as they are. The problem is that you in your dream still consider lies to be truth, therefore it's no wonder that you also consider human to be animal :)) Your mind is intoxicated by skillful enchanter who calles himself Swami (master of the senses) which he is certainly not. And believe me, I would be much more happy if he was. But however uncomfortable it is, the truth is only one and seeking the truth is actually the only way how to progress in spiritual life. Unfortunately you are presently not so strong to see it, to understand it and admit it to yourself.

    I'm not angry with you. I'm just really sorry for your ignorance. And there's also another significant difference between us: Although I don't agree with you, I have nothing against you. I like you and I respect you. I wouldn't dare to attack you personally. I have no reason to do it. This issue with swAmi is not anything between you and me. You can believe in whatever you like. But you attack me because I'm revealing your Swami in your comfortable rose-colored nitch called YiDL (R) to be just dummy figurine in dreamed-up castle in the air.. And your disturbed mind seeks every possibily how to deny by all means anything and everything what can threaten your belief..

    Dear Pandora, please, instead of personal attacks better calm down and listen to what others here are trying to tell you. In fact it's quite simple. Your Swami likes girls. There wouldn't be anything wrong about it, if he hadn't declared himself to be a sannyasi.. If one sleeps with girls and claims himself to be a Swami (master of his senses), then he is a cheater. And you have free intelligence, you don't need to repeat what others planted into your head and don't have to think like someone other wants you to think. Just listen and judge independently all those facts. The testimonies are real. We are real.

    On the other hand I really understand how you feel, because I was in YiDL (R) myself for eight years. Now, with some time distance I can see independently what is actually going on there. But actually I don't regret those years at all. I gained great benefit from following strict sadhana in YiDL (R). It gave me really a lot in my personal life and I was able to move on in my spiritual life too. But be sure that the same benefit one can get from following any other teacher who passes on Patanjali's teachings. Luckily our spiritual progress doesn't depend on one single person who calls himself a Guru and when such uncomfortable truth about him is revealed, it's not the end of the world.. Believe me :) You can go much further in your spiritual life, if you will sincerely seek the Highest Truth. When the time comes, we must be able to give up things which are false, to get rid of our rigid attachments to those teachers who are not genuine and then we can move to another level on our spiritual path. Just seek and you will find. You only have to free your mind and try to see things from another perspective.. Then a new gateway will be opened for you in your spiritual life. It's sometimes quite painful process, but there's no other way. Please, open your eyes.
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Devotees' testimonies:

Devotee #1

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Devotee #2

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Devotee #3

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Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz

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Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de

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Devotee #6

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Devotee #7

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