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sex abuse scandal.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    as i already told you i will start to speak and write like you when i will get the reasonable facts
    what is written on the abuse page i can copy from web even in better form as they did
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    ann, be sure when one has genuine spiritual realizations he can know many things 100% sure not about himself but even about others :) swAmi is not bona fide spiritual master and he cannot actually liberate you from the material world. According to Vedic scriptures such ability to grant liberation has only the Supreme Lord Himself and one can come to Him by the mercy of His representative, pure devotee of the Lord, genuine spiritual master.

    But you have freedom to believe he can liberate you. I also believed.. :) I understand you. Few years ago I would speak and think exactly the same as you.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    dear sunyac,

    pls help me to understand how you realized that swAmi is not the selfrealized master?
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    dear ann and others,
    whoever cannot have direct proof of something share the same problem... who and what to believe. (by the way, this is quite an everyday situation.)
    I think the best we can do is to listen to what others say pro or contra... to read everything... and finally to decide who seems to be more sincere, who are the ones we trust, we would be friends with, disciples of etc....
    all disciples who left swAmi trusted him before (otherwise they wouldn't have become disciples) and almost all remember the good things, the divine things as well...
    dear ann... I remember having been in states of various degree of mercy or bliss or whatever... you name it... and most of them were unrelated to swAmi... after many years of regular practicing, going to seminars etc. I still didn't want to become formal disciple... partly because I think it is not absolutely necessary to have one specific (formal) master to become enligthened or ... again you name it...
    and partly because swAmi seemed good and wise and what not in many aspects and was surrounded by many good people, but seemed, acted and spoke less than wise on many occasions...
    but because I was also mistaken on some points where I later found out (through my own experience) to agree with swAmi, and because the whole system, the YIDL people and swAmi himself seemed benevolent and sincere enough, I finally said to myself maybe being a formal disciple of swAmi would be a good thing even if, in some senses, he does not seem the perfect guru/master for me...
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    Esoterikforum.at was closed by administrator, due to the letter of the lawyer, it was not said in which name.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    no matter how many sources of information (that is, people saying what they say) are closed... whoever wants to say something and whoever wants to hear that will meet up this way or the other... internet is one of the greatest stuff people have created and maintain :)
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    I wish to add, that yoga I will always (try to) practice :)
    no matter what
    so, if I say things like this, I hope you can imagine how much it helped and helps me :)
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    i think that the way of writing was not professional therefore the esotheric forum has been closed in the same way as slovenian forum and croatian
    if the "abused ones" will keep dignity in writing the forum probably will be not closed
    but to here in every secon word bs it is not nice
  • Chava May 2011
    Posts: 45
    I am fullfilling my promise - this is a second Peter´s message:
    What I wrote, I wrote because I knew you and I see what you're doing. So it is my personal experience. On the contrary, how could you write that you and "Others "provides real facts? Did anybody signed these "statements" with their real names and addresses so that the other side can legally defend itself? So if we are sensible and decent people, we can´t talk here about "real facts" - at this stage ii is only about gossiping and you know it. Permanent excuses of these alleged adult "victims " due to privacy concerns etc. it´s not possible to take seriously anymore. I understood that in that case if there were currently a lot of under aged, as in the scandals in the Catholic Church, where the kids were afraid for years and raised their voices only when were adults and able to confront the tragedy in a legal manner. So the credibility of the current "evidence" against swAmi is therefore zero and you are only sponging and spreading gossip and this is a crime in the legal world.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    Ann,
    Some of the girls told here at this forum they tried to tell to the others but nobody would listen to them. Havent you heard this from any of them before, being so many years close to swAmi and yoga social groups?
  • Chava May 2011
    Posts: 45
    to falseswamiji... I have to translated Peter´s second message.. I promised it... so I did it
    one more point: I don´t agree with his opinion but... as it was written at the very begining of this forum... this is a place for both sides
    and one more point :-) as you perhaps know, Radha in her letter which was published on atforum was trying to shut up not somebody who wrote agains swAmi but Nat82 who supported swAmi. And this is because when nobody will react you can´t react on him and there is no more discussion. And that is what swAmi needs...not arguing, not discussing... he needs complete silence.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Chava, you're really great... I bow down before you... comparing what you shared about your experience with you willing to translate someone's words suggesting, among others, that it's zero...
    this is what I would call freedom :) :) :)
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Thank you Joyriver for coming back :)

    Now to Peter:

    I don’t know you and you don’t know me. That we met and talked in India means nothing. Do you know how many people I’ve met in India and talked to? Is that the way you judge people. How come you talked to me, the bad swami, the loser and all those words you call me. Pretty bad judgment, I would say. I do agree with you that it would be really difficult for any court to grant those “alleged victims” victory. Well, I am not a lawyer to decide that. Are you? Because of your subtle threat of a legal action. Believe me, we are not that stupid. We know what could be the consequences of our actions. If you read the forum’s comments, there was quite a bit discussed about that. I, the loser, know how to consult with a lawyer. You know, here in the US it’s a national sport to sue people for everything possible. I, the loser, run a successful business and I have to deal with legal aspects of any of my actions everyday. I can stand with any of my statements in front of Grand Jury and have them decide if I am making stuff up or not. Have you ever heard a word “witness”? It has almost the same power as smoking gun. It looks like because those women were not minors you are fine with it. Well, court may be too but they cannot accuse me of gossip and lying. Everything would be different if the accused wasn’t swami, sanyasi, guru. Everything has different connotation. The court may throw the case out but no court will be that foolish to go the other way around. And have you ever heard of freedom of speech?

    You’ve asked Chava to translate more for you. That she is kind of nice, not as evil as I am. Well, if you read the forum, which you are accusing putting up misinformation, you could read there that she is one of those women who published their stories with swAmi on the abuse web site. You ask her if she would not mind to translate more for you. I am sure she definitely minds but still she translated it. First, she is a nice person and believes in truth. Second, I was the one who asked her for it after I’ve read your many times multiplied comment (next time post singles, please, don’t be lazy to write to each thread something original, we get the reading the first time, we promise) – read the forum. You have also said that you want to find the truth, that you listen and follow the intuition. You haven’t even read what you’ve been accusing me for. Either from laziness or because your English is not good enough. Find and pay a translator. Your intuition has failed you again.

    Dear Chava, don’t feel that I want you to translate for this guy. It’s up to you but I don’t think he is worthy. He is getting his intuitive knowledge from whoever knows. We all thank you greatly and I think everybody is honored with you being here this way and cheering.

    Cheers Chava, Cheers :):):)

    Back to Peter. Again, you haven’t provided any real fact, just lawyer scare crap and incoherent reasoning. You know what is the worst? Fanatic with a mission. So as I’ve said the first time. Stick to the basics.
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Someonefromhungary, I told you. This whole thing is a "satsang". Got it?
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    if I have to decide who I would trust, who I would be friends with, who I would be formal or non-formal follower/disciple of...
    I would be friends etc. with people who would take care to listen to my words (even if I seem to be a person of no credit for any reason) and also others' words, and would do genuine efforts to understand me and others if I or anyone else complained/spoke about something seemingly incredible (but serious)...
    any effort suggesting that people should not communicate with each other rings alarm bells in my head or heart or body or... you name it...
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Thanks, Durchanand... :D
    Hello, everybody. i have been away for a while. Roman, hello. I cheer for you. You stand so firm and with dignity. I sooooo appreciate.
    Thanks Pavitra. I love to hear from you.
    And thanks Chava. A great courage and strenght from you.
    This is really a good company. i like this satsang.
    It takes time to read the whole blog. So I'll take my time.
    Love you all.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Roman, I agree... for quite a time now, my experience is that "satsang" can occur (almost) anytime anywhere ;)
  • Chava May 2011
    Posts: 45
    To Chava

    Moc děkuji za tvůj překlad a předem i za ten druhý. Vystihuje to, jak jsem to napsal. Jsem rád za tvoji nestrannost a pomoc. Pokud tady má být plnohodnotná diskuze, tak ať otevřeně zazní všechny názory i když se třeba někomu "nehodí". Jsem dlouholetým žákem. Jak jsem psal, byl jsem i v Indii, něco jsem už v YIDL prožil a to i v těsné blízkosti. Nemám zájem na tom, abych někomu stranil. Pro mě je také životně důležitý pravdivý stav věcí. Určitě také nejsem žádnou zmanipulovanou ovcí - řidím se svou intuicí, pozorováním okolí i souvislostí. Nějakých podobných náznaků "zneužívání" nebo řečí o tom bych si dávno všiml. Mám poměrne dobrý přístup k informacím. Myslím, že pozadí kampaně bude brzy vyjeveno. Já nemám právo předbíhat, to bych sdělil už v prvním dopise, vše má svůj čas. Jen je mi líto těch, kteří se do toho nechají bez svého náhledu tolik vtáhnout a věří každému zprostředkovanému "svědectví". Jsem si jist, že budoucnost vše ve správný čas a vhodným způsobem odhalí...

    Pokud budeš mít čas a chuť přeložit i tohle, tak budu taky moc rád.
    Petr

    To Chava
    Thank you very much for your translation and in advance for the second translation too. Describes it, as I wrote it. I am glad for your help and fairness. If there should be a full-fledged discussion, so let them hear all views openly even if they don´t fit to someone. I am a longtime student. As I wrote, I was in India, something I've experienced even form a very close distance. I have no intension to be on someone´s side. For me it is also vitally important the true state of things. Certainly I am not rigged sheep - I follow my intuition, observation of the surroundings and chain of events. Any similar signs of "abuse" or talks about it I would noticed long ago. I have relatively good access to information. I think the background of the campaign will be exposed soon. I have no right to anticipate, this I would then in my first letter. Everything has its time. Just as I pity those who let them draw in it without their point of view and believe to every mediated "testimony". I am sure that the future reveals everything at the right time and in an appropriate manner...

    If you have time and desire to translate also this, I will be glad.
    Peter

    Dear Peter,
    I´m glad that you are finding me fair.
    I try to be open, I try to act according this: I don´t agree with your opinion but I will fight for the right that you can tell it...
    BUT!!! I don´t want to confuse you...
    I can´t be impartial, neutral.
    I am one of the abused women...
    If you are informed so well you would know it from this forum from one of mine messages.
    Are you pity also for me, that I let myself draw in the campaign and believe to testimonies of the ladies?
    It is good you have such a strong trust in your intuition and observation - on the other hand I have my experience with swAmi. And maybe we are not living our lives so far from each other. Maybe even the abuse didn´t happen not far from you.
    I don´t want to convince you or to change your mind. These are just few notes for you - for overthinking.

    Chava

    Drahý Petře,
    jsem ráda, že mě shledáváš nestrannou.
    Snažím se být otevřená, snažím se jednat podle tohoto: Nesouhlasím s tvým názorem ale budu bojovat za právo, abys ho mohl říci...
    ALE!!! Nechci tě zmást...
    Nemůžu být nestranná.
    Já jsem jedna ze zneužitých žen...
    Když jsi tak dobře informovaný, věděl bys to z tohoto fóra z jedné z mých zpráv.
    Je ti líto také mne, že jsem se nachala vtáhnout do kampaně a věřím zpovědím žen?
    Je dobré, že máš takovou důvěru ve svou intuici a pozorování - na druhé straně já mám svojí zkušenost s swAmiu. A možná že ani nežijeme své životy tak daleko od sebe. Možná že se ani zneužívání nestalo tak daleko od tebe.
    Nechci tě přesvědčovat ani změnit tvůj názor. Je to jen pár poznámek pro tebe - k přemýšlení.

    Chava

    PS: předem upozorňuju, že nevím, zda budu schopna z časových důvodů dělat další překlady. Nechceš založit české fórum? :-)
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji May 2011
    Posts: 255
    i bow down to you Chava
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji May 2011
    Posts: 255
    Ann- many names are already known, so take a better look at the site, it is not so anonymous after all. If YIDL wanted to sue anyone it already could have done it, but they won't cause mr.M. knows that he can only lose.

    And don't be so self proud.
    Don't you think that more than 100 devotees from Serbia( yidl is A history in Serbia) and other countries like Germany, Croatia, Slovenia, Czechoslovakia, Australia etc , many of them being devotees for more than 20 years had no such experiences at all ? That your experience is so special and unique?

    However your drug-like bliss-like states can't annul the hurt and disappointing hypocrisy your 'guru' has done, and still is doing by denying his deeds.

    And your comment ' I could find better imaginary statements than those on the abuse site" is just telling how much you wish it was so, noting else.

    Better try to stop your mind for a moment and ask your self how stupid and ignorant does that sound to the victims and the authors of the site that is telling the truth?
    Patronizing others is surely not the position you can jump into at this moment.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    Ann why are you so angry? What is your point? The divine experiences are going on in your heart and is between you and the divine. I'm happy that swAmi inspired you to achieve something. But believe me from any of your words in this forum anything divine came out but as many others already spotted it just a lot of problems you must have with yourself. And knowing the guru I understand completly the type of divine perceptions you could get from him. I have a close freind that was practising some tantra yoga for many years and she is saying that the orgasms she gets are divine experiences. So with you your guru has just chosen the right technics and I'm happy that you enjoyed it so much. But if you are so happy, satisfied and blessed, why do you need to attack other people so much?
    Pavitra
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    and just a couple of questions for Ann: during your divine experiences it was told you to invent stories about other people giving as much as you can of personal details? and also to phone and write to these people blackmailing them? did you hear about human rights and ahimsa? do you know that if someone is convincing you to give him your body, your money, your time or to worship him , this is already an abuse? believe me there are laws that are protecting us against these kind of abuses and as I know that you also like to make money (by the way are you paying any taxes from the business you are doing in YIDL?) you will probably be the first one to sue swAmiwaranda when you finally will admit what is going on with you.
    Pavitra
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    dear pavitra,

    i am not angry, i am just trying to find te answers on this story
    but until now i did not get any answer on my questions from your side

    i already told you when i will get the right confirmations than i can belive you
    thats all
    i hope that you understand
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    dear pavitra,

    i am not attacing the people, i am just asking for the explanations
    pls give me the explanations of my answers and then i will belive in these stories
    it is so simple
    i pretend nothing more that the concrete answers
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    what a big master this must be, fighting with his army, heckers and lawyers against some chicks!
    The swAmi abuse site is gone again, perhaps the 4th time
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] May 2011
    Posts: 0
    dear falseswamiji,

    pls try to give me the answers on my questions and that i can belive
    but first i have to get the answer that cici is not covering hisself with the abuse story
    that all

    immediatelly after his statement came out he got married
    how can a normal person explain this fact?
    such a huge local guru like cici got married

    pls explain me and than i will belive you
  • Fate May 2011
    Posts: 1
    I just like to say that I am from Koper and what Ann says is not true I went out of the
    system YIDL not because of Chidanand, but simple becouse I belive to our victim and she is not mentaliy ill person, for me this is clear evidence of swAmi abuse.
    Thanks Roman for what you're doing,the truth should win.
    Fate Puri
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    ann
    you already know the truth, you dont need to ask others.

    ann, kaj sprašuješ! Saj sama veš in poznaš resnico.
    Svet je bolj majhen, kot si misliš.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    dear ann :) OK, I'll try to answer.
    First you have to learn from genuine spiritual master coming in original and authorized guru parampara starting at the Supreme Lord Himself (not in such self-appointed 3-guy "parampara" starting at nowhere as in YIDL) who teaches original Vedic knowledge and path of selfrealization. Then you'll get the realizations by which you'll be 100% sure that swami swAmi is not bona fide spiritual master. If you'll sincerely ask Supreme Lord for guidance and seek the knowledge, you will get the answers yourself. It will take some time, but finally you'll get it.

    I cannot give you my own inner realizations which are non-transmittable. But still there are some outer sings by which you can recognize such person.

    What you (naturally) didn't hear from 'swAmi' swAmi (beside dozens other important things) is that Vedic scriptures actually contain exact information who is genuine guru and describe those disciplic successions which are bona fide in this age of Kali. In the Padma Purana it is stated that four sampradayas are considered to be bona fide sampradayas in this age:
    1. Sri Sampradaya - originating from Laksmi Devi;
    2. Rudra Sampradaya - originating from Lord Shiva;
    3. Nimbarka Sampradaya - originating from the four Kumaras;
    4. Brahma Madhava Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya - originating from Brahma.

    So first of all, the genuine spiritual master must come in one of these four successions.
    Sampradaya can not just be manufactured on it’s own. Everyone in India today claims to have some sampradaya, "oh yes we have sampradaya, and we also have…" No, it is not mentioned in the scriptures. It must be one of the four bona fide successions for the age of Kali as is mentioned in the Padma Purana. This Purana also mentions how one can recognize the genuine spiritual master further. So you can find more info there.

    Another very important thing is that bona fide spiritual master never claims himself to be God, nor lets his disciples to call him God. Nowhere in Vedic scriptures is mentioned such God incarnation known as Sri Deep Narayan Bhagavan Mahaprabhuji from Khatu in Rajasthan. All God incarnations are mentioned and/or in elaborate details predicted in Vedic scriptures. There are mentioned Their names, places, bodily features, activities, etc. Mahaprabhuji is simply not mentioned there. Therefore this whole "sampradaya" is false. It's not authorized by the Vedic scriptures. The prevalence of innumerable false incarnations of God is the great problem in Kali yuga.

    What comes to my mind next in connection with swAmi is now very relevant example: Real sadhu, real renounced sannyasi, never stays alone in private with a woman under any circumstances. Not even with his own mother, sister or daughter. What to speak of various female sercretaries, assistants and disciples. This rule prevents him from falling prey to lust and also then it is not possible to be accused from any sexual contacts. Because swAmi haven't been followed this rule for really renounced sannyasis, therefore he's now facing all those allegations.

    Another example I already mentioned: Genuine guru is himself the embodiment of his teachings. He lives what he speaks. He teaches by his own example. Not like swAmi swAmi who teaches hatha-yoga, but himself "doesn't need to exercise anymore, because he is already selfrealized", as he says. That's not the approach of real guru. Real guru must himself do what he teaches.

    swAmi is very nice and skillful talker and crowd pleaser, but actually he teaches very poor Vedic knowledge. His teachings are village stories mixed with some scripture hodgepodge. The biggest problem is that there are many (not so popular but very important) things necessary on the path of self-realization which he doesn't tell his disciples. But the genuine spiritual master preaches the knowledge of selfrealization from the Vedic scriptures unaltered, as it is, not adding or hiding anything. He must follow the path prescribed by scriptures and not manufacture his own process.
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