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sex abuse scandal.
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    And lots of you (us) guys who write against swAmi are Asuras as I've heard. Hey, we've got some siddhi's too:) It's in the eye of beholder.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Ah, I know, I find that so sad. How could he say that. I've been listening again on the YIDL Tv, and there is still so much fear mongering and underlying subtle and not so subtle threats of bad karma. So sad. It's all such a mess. How could he label you as Asuras? Even if the whole bunch of you were fabricating stories, and scheming, etc, why label you as demons? Why not invite you all for a big meeting, surely he doesn't have to be scared, even if you all were demons? If he is all loving and good, he would still love you and invite you? It doesn't make sense. To give such a big negative sweeping statement and label to people, no I find that very wrong. Elisabeth
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    Asuras are a good thing;)...it's the dialectics of Life...we can be hurt, but in reality it can awaken us, may be unpleasant but hey can be moments of eye-opening, forcing yourself to upgrade the system;)))

    from Svoboda's book, "Aghora", but taken from the FB post, as I didn't find it in the book while searching, but here it is;):

    "These yugas seem to be some sort of cosmic seasons," Svoboda interjected.
    "Yes, they are, and just as each season has its own characteristics, so does each yuga. Even the types of beings which predominate in the universe differ according to yuga. During Satya Yuga the DEVAS (literally, 'the shining ones') have a chance to exhibit their play. The devas or SURAS are what most people call gods. They are very high ethereal beings who like to help humans out if we request their help in the proper manner. They have an excess of Sattva in their natures, so they are very benevolent beings. But they are not pure Sattva, because we find that they are always getting into trouble in some way or other. Not only that, they are complacent. Once they have achieved something, they try to hold on to it; they don't want to progress further. Complacency is a characteristic of Tamas. Because of their complacency they are always getting conquered by the asuras.

    "The asuras ('anti-suras') are also highly evolved spiritual beings, but they are jealous and selfish. They are creatures of Tamas; they are eternally plotting wars against the devas to challenge them for dominion of the universe. But they also possess some Sattva; if they didn't they could never get the idea to perform penance, and they can perform terrific penances, austerities which the devas could never dream of doing. Unfortunately, when they obtain shakti as a result of these austerities they always misuse it. For example, they have learned how to control the minds of other beings. If they were to use this power for good they could be very beneficial to the universe. But they use it only to delude."

    <<br />
    Notes:

    1. Sattva is activity; Tamas is stasis; Rajas is transformation. These are the three Gunas - qualities or attributes.
    2. Shakti is energy.
    3. The Devas are NEVER conquered by the Asuras.
    4. The Asuras ONLY PLOT against the Devas (remember, they are predominantly Tamas or stasis) they DO NOT go to war with them.
    5. The Asuras are NOT members of the dark forces.
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    anyway,,we need asuras also...;) two kicks in the face and all is reset and we can move on...;)
  • joyriver April 2011
    Posts: 101
    Hello.
    I am new to this blog. I'd like to join in with some thaughts that came to my mind on the ascetism topic and this whole man-based patriarchal philosophy of yoga.
    It is actually a strange idea to look at human needs: biological, psycological... as something you have to suppress, ovecome, deny, or understand it as your enemy???
    Why would anyone think of it taht way, right? I belive our true human nature is positive, loving, joyous, happy, whatever positive and good attributes you could think of. And it is abusive relationships and controlling authority with external manipulation and conditioning that creates deviations in human behaviour and distorts the understanding of ones own needs as something bad.
    So in it's basis the tradition of the hindu (or any other culture) spiritual knowledge that is so disrespectful of a woman and of human vulnerability, is abusive and very aggressive indeed.
    Where is ahimsa? The denial of ones own individual tendences, needs, feelings, creativity, thaughts, doubts, perceptions, the silencing of the inner feeling that warns you, when you are in a strange situation with your guru (when he asks you to lock the door and get undressed!), the obedience, when you have to fit in the frame of rules that have been set for you by another person (guru), the way you feel that something is wrong with you, if you don't see how saintly authority (guru) is... This is all controlling freak stuff that one becomes subjected to!
    I actually know from personal experience that wounded personality can be healed by a completely new and positive experience in a relationship with another human being. This can help re-define the self. By another human being recognizing and acknowledging your actuall feelings, thaughts, needs… you can become aware and discerne your own reality. This is the way to self-realization. And not by being subjected to still another abuse.... It can never be good, it is not a test to your ego, it is not a special spiritual practice, if someone demands of you to have sex with him, or do anything that is conflicting your own ethical standards and the need to be safe, respected, acknowledged, loved,... just because he is a guru, or an authority. Why would a loving guru test your devotion at all? He is the one who should first respect your individual needs. And he is the one who should never ever cross the border line by subjecting you to sexual or any other acts with or for him? You are the one who should realize your self in your own tempo! And guru should promote your independence and clarity of thought.
    Denial is very strong… and it is rooted in childhood. It is difficult to acknowledge the fact that you have been misused by people whom you completely depend on. I am not a psychologist, but can tell by what I have realized, that some people who share their experience with swAmi (from this blog and other sources online), and those who knew but pretended it was not happening, have been subject to denial for a very long time.
    I think the way to enlightenment leads through, first, becoming aware and acknowledging, ones own needs and feelings, second, to fulfill those needs in a way that is respectful of onself and others (of course), third, to express needs and feeling in clear ways, so you are truthful and onest in communication, fourth, to be aware and respect needs and feelings of others. So here we have a basis of a respectful human relationship.
    From thare on, comes spirituality.
  • Following the side track of the siddhis question, Elisabeth, you seem like a nice woman, but your telepathy story still sounds crappy to me.
    I don't even say that swAmi would in principle be unable to perform such a thing, because his soul is miraculous and powerful just as yours is and mine is, but I got to say I have never ever in 20 years seen any evidence of him being any more in control of those miracles that we call coincidences than you (supposedly) or me.
    Would you therefore mind giving the details of the challenge you posed him to give me a chance to make up my mind? Last try, then we shall lay the matter to rest, probably agreeing to disagree.
    By the way, Ushmeypuri is not just some name I call myself but the name which uniquely identifies me to the people who know me, mostly in the Vienna ashram.
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    Joyriver: nice thoughts!;)
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Joyriver, yes, very nice! I really like the last paragraph! Mentions needs, feelings, respect, honest expression, truth and awareness of others ...Great!
    Ushmeypuri, we already disagree on the aspect of swAmi's Siddhis, and that will remain unless you ever EXPERIENCE what I've experienced. Some things cannot be explained. I leave it at that. Thumbs up for giving a real name, it's of course hard for people from different countries to check, unless we get on the phone. Ah well, maybe on my "to do" list. I'm not being sarcastic, but it's all quite hard isn't it...who is who...how to find out...it's a mess. And I'm only nice sometimes..ask my brother :-)
    pss. ah..damn..just one more thing on the Siddhis: You cannot surprise swAmi...he knows what we're all up to. He just does. A hidden camera in the bedroom wouldn't work for him. Ok, that's it. I think I will leave for a while...check in a bit later...and for the readers, I'm not with swAmi anymore, but the truth is the truth, and that's that. Doesn't mean he's God, it's a Siddhi. Elisabeth
  • dear Elisabeth, I have a little web site which is there mostly to give credibility in internet communications like ours to the idea that I am a real person : http://georgs-home.com
    My wife calls me vain for it :-) I could still be a robot or something but I hope this notion has become a little bit more unlikely for you now.

  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Ushmeypuri, I have one question for you. I really appreciate that you participate here while being part of YIDL ashram in Vienna. That open attitude shows that you are a serious and thinking person. Good for you. So the question is: “Why is the official YIDL response so rigid and completely close minded?” Some people who are there I knew and I just wonder how it is possible to refuse accept any information different than the fear and paranoia from their master. I’ve also read some of your posts on Esoteric forum, especially your duel with Croatian. He again proves my point. Rigidity and not enough drive to search for real truth. Whatever he calls “viveka” is not it. (By the way I don’t like hiding clear meaning of words behind Sanskrit terms. It makes sh…t to look like blessing from satguru.) You’ve heard somebody you know to tell you certain things which you know, they were not made up. I’ve heard the same and possibly worst then you did. Do you think that all those people you know there are in lock down mode or just being undecided and maybe a little bit scared and/or confused? I am just trying to understand what makes people not to use their own faculties. They just repeat what they were told to say or fanatically protect swAmi’s stand. If they don’t question they will end up behind the close door with nasty surprise. And it can be much worse then wanted or unwanted sexual encounter. It can be their entire life being crushed by realization that their “self-realization” is not coming and never was.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Hi all YIDL people,

    I must admit that despite giving an inordinate amount of my adult life to developing YIDL in Australia and being somewhat privy to some of the secrecy that was involved, i had never got a hint of anything about swAmi of the nature of what has been said over the past few months. I was equally shocked when i heard about Hariharanand. Naive me.

    But i must say i think what has happened as a result is great. The group of young people who were involved with YIDL in Australia are such clear, well intentioned and intelligent people. swAmi, to my mind, was an anchor holding them back while more progressive schools took advantage of more modern Yoga styles and more intricate and accurate philosophies.

    As to the girls who were "abused", cannot comment as i don't know of any; as to the girls who bitched and backstabbed their way to power by association in the organisation and didn't mind a bit of action in the early days - you should have said something. This situation could have been fixed much earlier and the organisation would be stronger.

    So great! We have amazing people, great buildings, a solid knowledge base. There is an opportunity here for people who are genuinely interested in Yoga to create something great.

    Hari Om and Good Luck
    Mah
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Please could you write more about swami Hariharanand. What happened?
    Thanks.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Re Hariharanand, no i don't want to say anything else; that situation has been resolved by the Australian management to my satisfaction.
    M
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Mah, thank you for your statement. Good luck to you too,

    Roman
  • Dear Roman, answering your question about the official Yidl response in Vienna, well, the people in positions of authority are also exactly the ones who have to lose most. These are people who have built their entire lifes around Yidl and for them it would be very painful to see that go away. Unfortunately they have no positive vision for a Yidl without a swAmi, like the Australians do have. So it is hard for them. It will take time. This will play out over many months.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Dear Mah,
    Who are you? I have just spoken to Annette, from YIDL Australia, she was my first ever YIDL teacher here, when they still only had a house in Brisbane, before they moved to the new centre in the Fortitude Valley. I asked her: "Do you know a person called Mah?" She said, no!
    My name is Elisabeth, people know me here, Annette, Michelle (Yogasiddhi), Monkia from Vienna knows me, Gopal knows me, Laksman knows me (22 year disciple from New Zealand), so, who the heck are you?
    Annette has been round for a long, long time, so please, who the hell are you?
    I know Hariharanand left/disappeared to New Zealand, he was the main person here when I came on the scene in 1996, and so far I've never gotten any answers as to why he lives in New Zealand now, and never comes here anymore?
    Are you just another person throwing mud? Why hide? I don't! You're not an "abused girl", so why hide? Are you a chicken?
    People really disappoint me. If you say something, stand by what you say and don't hide behind false names. Elisabeth, Sydney, Australia
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Dear Mah, Elisabeth again: Forgot: Bhakti (Number 1 in Australia, here from the beginning), knows me, also her ex-partner now turned Swami, Bhaktanand.

    Hariharanand knows me, and countless others. I'm sure you would have had to come in contact with Lakshman, after all, he was instrumental in bringing swAmi to Australia? So, please again: Who are you? You call yourself Mah, but are you just pretending that it is your name? Annette couldn't recall you....? I will ask around a bit more to see if anyone can recall your name? Mah???
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    may I suggest that we establish direct contacts somehow? I have already found some people (also from here) through facebook and I would be happy to come out of anonimity with more people...
    someonefromhungary
  • Durchanand April 2011
    Posts: 74
    Concerning Hariharanand I got parts of that story twice through people who wrote to me after my statement came out last week. One did not mention Hariharanands name and asked me not to publish her/his mail without her consent and the other came from an OZ disciple in whose house i stayed in 2008 when I had joined the OZ tour with swAmi. He gave a bit of information including the name of Hariharanand.

    his first mail to me (excerpts):

    "...I have read your statement. I quite honour your boldness to go forward with
    such a statement, especially knowing little bit your life story and that you
    would not say such a words lightly without deep considerations.

    Here In Australia it was easier to come to conclusions as Sydney was going
    trough same things already once before with Hari Haranand not long ago, all
    new reports sounded so familiar ..

    So are these men copying each other in succession already from Old GUru
    thinking such a behaviour is allowed as their master was doing it as well,
    how deep in history this goes ?..."

    my answer mail to him:

    "Dear ...,

    ....

    heard from someone who has been longer in australia something about a swami. but it was a bit difficult to understand. not clearly written. and no name . so hari haranand (who is in NZ?) did the same in sydney? when was that? would be cool to know a bit more about it.

    Seems like i am well hated. But i do not care. I am a man of the truth. But not on a mission. Naham Karta...

    And swAmi knows the jug is going to the well until it breaks - so swAmi knows that this game is over one day. And he kept it under the carpet for a real long time...

    much love from seva"

    second mail from oz:

    "Yes the man here in Australia was HariHaranand now in NZ. I don't remember time but it could be some around 2002 - 2004 where he was repelled from the heading of Aussie association. Until now I did not know why (we heard some peculiar explanations about making disciples too attached to him and not following standard routines like Satsangs etc..).

    Now it is clear what it was - he was apparently doing same thing as he seen
    elsewhere. So the same people who finally got rid of him recognized familiar
    patterns immediately and commenced appropriate actions. Now I learned that
    even Old GUru was involved in same kind of practice - so one was copying
    the other. The best source would be somebody from Sydney group, probably
    Bhakti - but I guess she closed her email accounts not to be overwhelmed by
    mail."

    And from devotee no. five of the abuse website I heard a confirmation that she was in Delhi when Hariharanand arrived after he had to go away from OZ. She says that many in India also know the story and that it is relatively open in the internal circles in OZ. Some girls wanted to have a share of his power and they wanted to check out the swami but he also seems to have been active. All women involved thought they were the only ones. Then they found out they were not the only ones and got together against him. When he came to India before going to NZ everyone there knew but one was not allowed to talk about it. It was swept under the carpet and everyone thought swAmi will make it right as usual.

    That is my informations about this part of the swamp.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Dear Mah! I just spoke to Laksman, who was instrumental in establishing YIDL in Australia, he is in Perth this very moment, with swAmi. I asked him if he knows of anyone called Mah, and he said no. It must be a short form of your name? Why not give your real name?
    To someone from Hungary: Can we post private messages here? Haven't tried yet. I suppose you could always get another gmail or hotmail address, post it here and get in touch with each other.
    But ultimately, how do you convince people that the sex allegations are true? Please post your ideas: I start:
    1. Video
    2. Court conviction for rape
    2. Signed affidavit - real name
    3. TV documentary......

    please any more ideas?
    Elisabeth
    http://sites.google.com/site/falseguru/methods-to-expose-the-truth
  • Durchanand April 2011
    Posts: 74
    Elisabeth and everybody, i cannot read it any more, sorry - court conviction of rape and all that stuff!

    I mentioned it on Esoterikforum.at a few times that this is damn complicated talking about criminal law. Make contact with the Austrian "Bundestelle für Sektenfragen" that they explain to you!

    It was never in no single case a rape in legal terms - at least what we heard so far. Rape needs physical violence against the victim and/or the woman defending herself etc., sorry, i am not a specialist but have been a civil lawyer for some years of my life. Forget about the possibility of the women getting together and take criminal court action. Most of the cases find no criminal paragraph which it could fall under, maybe in some countries you find something suitable and in others you do not. The deeds were done in different countries with people from different nations involved. So the first question is always: Which country´s law is the one to be used upon the case. Then if the country´s law has a paragraph which could be used it has to be checked if there is a limitation in court action (Verjährung) which will be the case in many of the stories. If it was consensual sex there is no criminal case at all.

    And if you have mastered all these hurdles then there is the problem of evidence.
    And you mentioned that in Germany there is a prolonging of limitation (Verjährung). But this is for the civil law question if the victim can get damages (Schadenersatz) after a long time. But we have no German cases like that!!!

    The only chance for a criminal conviction would be a real rape/intended rape case with minimum two girls present and it should have happened within the last couple of years. If two girls who are credible would decide to say something...That is why he sits in the easy chair! Hope you understand now a bit more.

    And talking about law part 2: all what is left is the civil law question about swAmis personality rights that he could claim that we stop making false allegations "injunctive relief - Unterlassungsanspruch". That is a bit more difficult for him and he does not do anything to make the case not bigger. He does not want it to be in the news because the public opinion is always against the gurus. That is the plus we have. And who knows when the press will be involved. I had the so called Swami Gajanand in my flat (until two weeks ago when I had to ask him to leave) who said in the night when we first heard about the smear campaign against poor Swamji about two months ago that we will read about this in the big magazines one day. His word in Gods ears.
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Durchanand, I second everything you've said. You look like really smart guy and thank you great deal for your Esoteric forum. I believe in leverage. I hope that as a lawyer you are not just getting naked in front of the crowd with your statement. Regarding the privacy and libel law suits it really differs from country to country. He has no chance in the US because we have the first amendment free speech right which is one of few rights which the Supreme Court will always uphold. Regarding the rape’n stuff you are right. It is really murky and every judge anywhere around the world will put the quotation marks around the “abused”. But as Deep Throat said: “Follow the money”. You know that they did not get Al Capone for his murders but for tax evasion. Just a thought. Like double books’n stuff? That is not libel. That is completely lawful right of the Austrian state authorities for audit (maybe with few pointers). They (the official YIDL Vienna/Jadan/whatever-wherever-whoever) are now trying to take the high ground after they’ve realized that the original low ground was pathetic and pitiful – see the remake of their “fakedisciple/the people behind the scene” blog at http://fakedisciple.blogspot.com . The original had the ordered statements/letters from all over the world disciples. It was then, after I had read statements of Yogesh and Govinda, when I got really pissed and started this forum. If their response wasn’t so stupid I would leave everything just with my statement on the abused victims website. Anyway, they must have somehow realized that they shot over and now they are the above everything enlightened saints. Well, one thing I wanna say: They are not. It’s even more pathetic then the first one. The first one was at least human reaction, this one is total bull. I rest my case.
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Dear Ushmeypuri, I think I know who you are and I am thrilled that you are who you are :) We had not been too close to each other due to circumstances rather than intent but we've always respected each other quite a bit. You have to understand that in last ten or so years I haven't spent even ten minutes thinking about YIDL. Those things which were not traumatic faded away and those other ones disappeared. I was surprised how those traumatic ones emerged after I started being active in/counter YIDL again. By YIDL I don’t mean the people. But also the other ones, those positive ones emerged. Those, who know me, they know that I was always open, fun, hard working and thinking guy. And I’ve always appreciated friendship and honesty of others same way as I expected from myself. So I r e a l l y hope that I know who you are. If not, it’s nice talking to you anyway. If yes, great to hear your roar, brother. In any case I know you are not stupid. You can evaluate and think (really difficult after swAmi’s brain laundry).
  • admin April 2011
    Posts: 61
    Someonefromhungary, on the right side menue bar you will find a link to "Private Conversation Instruction & Disclamer". This may answer your questions about establishing some contacts with people on this forum. Also, I just want to say, that you have to understand that if I don't know who you are (and no problem with that), I have to keep a lid on certain information provided. One thing I've learned over 55 years of my life was to always have certain cards hidden in my hand. Just in case. I hope you understand. (This is Roman/admin speaking :) Take care.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    thank you, Roman. I tried to create an account here for myself, but the security check I should pass doesn't work (it says "invalid inferrer"). can you help?
    thx,
    someonefromhungary
  • admin April 2011
    Posts: 61
    Ushmeypuri pointed out to me that captcha works just in Internet Explorer. Also, make sure that you check the accepting conditions box and try. You may need to try few times. I can see that people are signing up as members. When I try it works for me.

    Anybody else has that problem?

    Anyway, for you and anybody else having this problem:
    If nothing works, sent me your real email address to admin@sexabuseyidl.net . We'll do it the manual way. You may need to wait for few hours due to our time difference (people on this forum are from all over the world) and also due to me working even on the weekends (building sector economy has been real tough here for few years so I have to do what I have to do :)
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    I also have that problem, i tried to make an account several times, but failed, so I will send my e-mail address to you, admin.
  • admin April 2011
    Posts: 61
    Sounds good, send me the emails.
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Ushmeypuri,
    Now I got to see some of your pictures on your website, I think I may have confused you with somebody else I knew there. Anyway, I hope that you are fine and you are still roaring good.
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