WE HAVE MOVED!!!

Visit our new, improved website at www.beyondorange.org

ARTICLE IN SLOVENIAN JANA MAGAZINE:

Original

ARTICLE IN SLOVENIAN PRIMORSKE NOVICE MAGAZINE:

English, Hungarian

ARTICLE IN AUSTRIAN PROFIL MAGAZINE:

German, English, Hungarian, Czech, Serbian, Slovenian

CALL TO ALL OFFICIALS OF THE ORGANIZATION

English, Croatian, Czech, Hungarian, Slovenian, German, Serbian

Siddhi Challenge
  • Tony May 2011
    Posts: 172
    Dear swAmi,

    here'a little challenge to convince me that you are for real.

    There is a yellow sticky note with a nine digit number written on it in my possession. I have memorized the number so you can read it from my mind, or you can travel in your astral body and look at the note, up to you. Should be easy.

    Put the number right here: --- --- ---

    All you need is to go to the hard drive that contains the database that stores this forum, find the cylinder and the sector on the disk with this post and flip a few bits on it... Should be easy, compared to reading mind, walking on water, materializing rudrakshas, etc. Just flip the spin on a few billion molecules. You have three days.

    Clearly this is orthogonal to the sex abuse allegations against you. What I am saying is that perhaps you were lying about much more than just that. Maybe the entire BigSwan gig is a complete fraud.

    In the unlikely event you succeed, this would still only convince me and nobody else, so I encourage everyone on this forum to make their own number, copy and paste this post. swAmi, please, fill out the secret numbers of all my friends as well. Your credibility will receive an instant boost, and frankly this would scare the hell out of me. Good luck.
  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    here is my digit. If you succeed i'll flew next day to Jadan, giving all my possesion to the cause and do Kunjal krija and Sankpraksalana every day 4 the rest of my life to cleanse myself. Man I would do vajroli and amaroli too :D
    --- --- ---
    Ok, I understand that your point is to surrend ourselves without any proofs (and reason also) because it is easy to believe when you see the miracle. Hmmm a few questions arising...
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    I'm more modest, I ask you to tell the 4 pin code digits of my credit card:
    ----
    If you find it out, my account will become yours.
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    Reply to @pavitra:
    :) :) :)

    Petr is in danger that his 4 pin code digits will be discovered by the clairvoyance woman and it will not help him to know yours!
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Lovely idea, this number codes... If Mr. G has siddhis, well, then I have them, too. And probalby most of us, have some kind of siddhi. It is really not a big deal. And you don't have to practice severe saddhana to develop them. They just pop out naturally. But we shall see, what he is capable of, right?
  • Tony May 2011
    Posts: 172
    Well, time is up, and to use the appropriate language for the present medium:

    LOL, Internet miracle epic FAIL!

    Just wondering, the reason so few people joined the challenge is:

    1) You think it is idiotic (i.e., you don't really believe in miracles, siddhi etc., like me. Great.)
    2) You think it is disrespectful to a "spiritual leader". Religious people are special and we should not ridicule them like this.
    3) You are worried that his siddhi can actually hurt you. Well, clearly, his siddhis suck...

    swAmi, in the name of truth, I'll give you three more days.
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    For me: I don't believe in miracles, siddhies etc, but I also definitelly don't have one siddhi: to memorize a nine digit number easily (I am really terible with phone numbers, thanks whoever for iphone :)
  • satfinder May 2011
    Posts: 24
    Levitation in India -)
  • Tony May 2011
    Posts: 172
    Well this is just unbelievably bad, isn't it? swAmi could not do it, even after I graciously offered him an extension. Petr's visionary lady friend could not do it, and Petr himself with all his advanced samadhi could not do it, seriously people, what's wrong with the spirtitual masters these days?

    Mahapraphuji is watching how we, on this satanic forum, are moving further and further away from his golden teachings, submitting to our negative vritti, and does absolutely nothing. He just lets us walk straight to hell, or perhaps into next lives as tapeworms.

    Where's the compassion we heard so much about? You are watching your protege, a megaswami who has brought your awesome pathbreaking ultra-spiritual teachings to the corrupt West, getting attacked, subject to ridicule and you do nothing about that either? In Lila Amrit you would have interfered far more dramatically over far lesser transgressions than my open Internet heresy here. What's going on?

    Why can't we get just one little demonstration?

    I am wondering, and it seems to be the only consistent explanation, that it must be because you cannot really do it? Because you are just a fraud. Because you are a lier. All you really want is the holy trinity of money, sex, and power.

  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    Siddhi challenge? Pretty silly, I think. Sorry, Tony, I know you are trying your best, but you just don't know. That's ok. I agree with you on everything you say, but there is something you don't get/understand: He has Siddhis. You don't know what/who you are dealing with. It's not an ordinary human with normal consciousness. We are dealing with a being that has advanced knowledge. You can't hide stuff from him. He knows. Is he an Asura? A deva? Good? Bad? Tony, you never had the pleasure/experience of his advanced knowledge, so your Siddhi Challenge is like a 4 year old playing in kindergarten and throwing a tantrum.

    No offense, it's ok. I'm seriously thinking of the possibility of the Sw. being a very highly advanced, yet demonic Yogi. If any of his followers read this, don't let that scare you into staying with him. I wish we could get some people in here who had direct experience of the Sw. and his Siddhis. Please, come forward and share your experiences. And for Tony and the other Siddhi sceptics, please be polite and let the people talk.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @John_Sceptic: I'm afraid you see it perfectly right, John. The swAmi certainly has some mystical powers. But, as we can learn from the Vedas, not everyone who is engaged in yoga and spirituality, is necessarily saintly and honest person, although he can appear to be. There were and still are personalities in this world who by austerity and yoga practice gained mystical powers, many folowers, fame, worship from others... but actually they are not Devas, saintly persons, but Asuras, demoniac characters. All those false gurus are examples of this. They may pretend to be very pious, clean and innocent, but instead of truly serving God after getting the benefits from their austerities they subsequently use their gained powers and advancement in yoga for their own pleasure, sense enjoyment and controlling others... Their aim is to have power, fame, influence, association of young beautiful women and even sex with them. All these things are exactly the opposite of the qualities of genuine sadhu, sannyasi, pure servant of the Lord renounced of this world. In YIDL it is all very nicely packed and presented in attractive way as service to the devotees and to the whole humanity, but when we can see the activities of the svAmi without the rose wrapping and sweet talks, then we can see their rotten nature manifesting very clearly.
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji May 2011
    Posts: 255
    So John, why don't you tell us why you are so convinced ,and what is your experience that makes you so sure of his powers?
    If you are asking others, why don't you share your experience first?
    And , if you had no experience what makes you feel so sure?
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    I think swAmi doesn't have any 'siddhis' and I doubt if anyone in the world has any 'siddhis'. But of course the suggestion that one has mystical powers is helpful to attract people and to keep them in your power. The same way that voodoo is not real, but the suggestion that it's real gives great manipulative power.
    Your mind can really play tricks with you, but when you see it through it loses its power.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    And I think that if there is such a thing as 'supernatural powers', the ones that have them only do so in a very limited degree. We all have something called intuition and some people have it a little more than others or are a little more trained in it. I don't think swAmi has much of it, he is intelligent, but that's a very different thing. And wisdom is yet another thing, I think the only wisdom is the one that you live and not only speak.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    I absolutely agree with you truthseeker. Just imagine the impact would have a single, tiny, tiny miracle. Use your logic people. Just look at all the marketing efforts that XXXXX is investing to get the attention of the largest number of people. One small miracle and he would get millions of people. To save the world.
  • Tony May 2011
    Posts: 172
    Over the years when I was teaching yoga here in Canada, I'd say half of the people (mostly women) seriously believed I was a "higher being" and had special powers, like I could read their minds, see the future and all sorts of utter nonsense. It was impossible to talk them out of it. They had many "proofs" that I had had it. For a while it was amusing, but ultimately it gets to be very annoying.

    Other yoga and meditation teachers will tell you the same thing. People just like to believe in miracles, which indirectly means immortality.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    last year in vep, swAmi said during a satsang something like "you know, if I knew what was going on in your heads, all my hair would stick straight up". I think that was his honest answer to anyone thinking that he might have the siddhi to read anyone's mind like a book.
  • satfinder May 2011
    Posts: 24
    "sidhi powers BS", ha ha ha -)

    ... mantra tables [save $$$ & €€€ & ...],
    sidhi techniques [levitation" (flying technique)],
    ... advanced technique mantras, ...

    http://minet.org/mantras.html
    http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=896&Itemid=11
    http://transcendental-meditation-honestly.blogspot.com/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharishi_Mahesh_Yogi
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    http://www.ex-cult.org/
    http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics
    ..............

    They have a sense of "higher purpose" and see themselves as being the
    "keepers of the truth."

    By becoming the instruments of their own mystique,
    they create a mystical aura around the manipulating institution - the Party,
    the Government, the Organisation, etc. They are the chosen agents to
    carry out this mystical imperative.

    Pure and impure is defined by the ideology of the organization.
    Only those ideas, feelings and actions consistent with the ideology
    and policy are good. The individual conscience is not reliable.
    The philosophical assumption is that absolute purity is
    attainable and that anything done in the name of this purity is
    moral. By defining and manipulating the criteria of purity and
    conducting an all-out war on impurity (dissension especially) the
    organisation creates a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is
    perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, the demand that one
    strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does
    not exist but is alien to the human condition.

    Since the
    organisation is the ultimate judge of good and evil, this guilt and
    shame is used to manipulate and control members. The organization
    becomes an authority without limit in the eyes of members and their
    power is nowhere more evident that in their capacity to "forgive".

    ............
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409

    _____________what is freedom? spirituality promises freedom, to go beyond human limits, to unite with god etc...what is the difference between religion and spirituality? how to define spirituality, is it purely individual or 'collective'; what makes certain group religious/spiritual in nature?...When I read the article from above and there are many examples from "Yehova's witnesses" and their organisation and I am asking myself (as I never imagined myself to be a part of religious group, though I was starting to practice yoga and eventually came to "...im täglichen Leben", and I would never join if I viewed it, as similar to Yehova's or some other extreme religious group), to what extent almost all of the groups fall into this category of a cult/ideology...and if we speak about ideology, it is everywhere around us,,it begins (already) in family...the only difference is, if the ideological structures, permit you to find your own answers among the flood of information and everything that is available...if spirituality is fundamentally individual phenomenon, learning, exploring and seeing for yourself where it leads you, which I always considered yogic path to be, than there should be no problem; you are free to read, practice and see for yourself and (as they all speak), become your-self...which opens the question again: what is the self, which self, etc...to cut it short: if you are really free, or you feel free, than you do not seek no ideology, no specific story, wrapped in mythological fabulas, nor do you seek to worship anybody and if true yogic path is to find your-self, than nothing and nobody can say: this is the way!, as no way is universal for all and valid for all times; but for the safety-sake, we join the community where you get the inspiration, support etc...and you become part of a spiritual family, and like in all families, there will be tensions also, ambitions etc...and do we really believe that within the Family, we will all flourish and realize our potentials and finally Realize ourselves?, This sounds also like an utopia; - there is only your own particular way which you thread along the path of life with the support of other particular individuals who support you or you support them, there is no other path, except your own, wherever you are, and there is no guarantee for anything, and to plainly believe in anything, you do not really know, makes you a believer...what you know, is where you are and what you can do, whatever you want to do as much as possible, all else is "waiting for Godot"...problem is more or less that we do not live but are more or less 'dead' than alive...and whoever lives his/her own way (according to your moral stand and action), he or she will not seek the guarantee in Other...to awake and follow your path, you need yourself and everybody who give you the same freedom as you give them...things are simple, but we are too weak to take the burden of ourselves upon ourselves...all Guarantee-Figures fall in that sense...that's all from me, the subject named Batawe!
  • VeritasVeritas May 2011
    Posts: 218
    Siddhis?

    We shall not loose ourselves in a basic discussion about the existence of supernatural powers.
    The subject here is, whether swAami has any "supernatural powers" or not.

    So everybody should feel free to tell about their own experiences with Svvami of which
    they may or may not classify as "supernatural".

    I am going to share my thoughts and experiences here.

    First of all, I have to say, that I never witnessed any occasion where he himself would
    have claimed to be in posession of supernatural powers. So in my opinion he can not be
    called a liar if he has no such powers, as I have never heard him claiming that he would
    have such for himself.

    Predictions
    I have also never witnessed any kind of demonstration of supernatural powers. On the contrary,
    the only time I had direct experience with an attempt of predicting the future was, when he
    predicted the sex of a unborn child in the mothers womb, he predicted the baby to be a boy.
    Well, even he had a 50% chance to be right, but he failed, it was a girl. Epic.

    That incidence prooved to me, that he has no knowledge of the future whatsoever. (Well if he had, I
    doubt that this site here would exist anyway. Think about it.)
    Actually he not only failed to predict the furure with that one, as the babys was already
    there, right in front of him, just hidden inside the mothers womb. He showed, that he had no
    higher knowledge of the present nor the past.

    Healing
    One of the most impressing supernatural powers would be the power of healing. To my knowledge,
    no such thing has ever occured. On the contrary, quite a number of his close disciples died from
    various severe illnesses - without him being able of helping them in any way (physicly).

    Mind reading
    Many disciples claim, that he is able to read minds. This is a very wide field and many con-artists
    perform this task very well. Therefore you have to know about the basics of this subject.
    The main task is to gather information.
    I would not be surprised at all, if there is a filing system, with all avaliable data and
    also personal and sensitive information about every member of y.i.ol.l. Information is collected
    systematcly and forwarded to the top of the pyramid. Also keep Roman's statement in mind, where
    he discribed how he had to buy spying equipment for swAmi.
    And there is another point. Do not forget that he acted as priest, meaning that his disciples came
    to him and confessed their most intimate secrets and asking for advice. Mind you, how much you can
    learn about the human mind this way. If you are smart, it is not hard at all to impress your followers
    with some shots, just with plain logic.
    There are some other techniques which are used by professionals such as "cold reading".
    Cold reading is an very efficient technique to get the most astonishing results, even sceptics can
    be impressed by well performed cold readings. If you want to learn more about this, here you go:
    http://www.wikihow.com/Cold-Read or just google "cold reading"

    So far there is no convincing evidence, that allows a serious consideration, that swAmi
    could in fact be in posession of any kind of superhuman powers.
    But maybe YOU can deliver one?
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @Veritas: Spying on followers is probably a common trait among cults (and in countries with totalitarian regimes). Psychoanalyst and former member of the Siddha-Yoga cult (SYDA) writes on page 3 in his paper 'Traumatic Abuse in Cults: A Psychoanalytic Perspective':

    "I was aware that for many years, Gurumayi, and her predecessor, Swami Muktananda, had been using spies, hidden cameras, and microphones to gather information about followers in the ashram."

    FYI: Muktananda and Gurumayi were the gurus of the SYDA-movement. Knowing as much as possible about followers is of course a useful tool in controlling them.

    I also never heard swAmi say that he has supernatural powers (or the opposite, that he does not have them), but I know it's widely believed among yidl-followers that he does. Maybe it's because Lila Amrit is full of Mahaprabhuji and Devpuriji performing miracles, and swAmi is supposed to have contact with them in his meditations.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    From my point of view the most clamorous prove of lack of swAmi's superpowers are the horrible car accidents that happened to some of his closest disciples. It may be true that he never claimed in public to have some super powers but while explaining those accidents for instance he was giving a wide room to the audience (me) to assume it. In one case he was saying that it was much better to die from a car accident than from a painful disease and in the case of the accident that happened in South Africa where 2 of his disciples died, he told to the surviving victim (she told me) that it was him that saved her life (guru krippa). But also here it was more his manipulative extraordinary skills of creating the right assumptions in people minds than something that was said directly.
    But he knew very well the negative propaganda impact of such accidents as he was giving always clear instructions to the organisers not to speak about them. And again more "general" instructions to the crowd - never speak or report negative thaughts and news.
  • July 2011
    Posts: 0
    (sorry, had to be deleted by editor due to spamming)
This discussion has been closed.
← All Discussions

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership

In this Discussion

Devotees' testimonies:

Devotee #1

---------------

Devotee #2

---------------

Devotee #3

---------------

Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz

---------------

Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de

---------------

Devotee #6

---------------

Devotee #7

SiteLock